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Supa-Puss vs. 104M

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:03 am
by Crowyote
I was recently experiencing Analog Delay fever again, and having sold off my 104's I was looking at available options in the budget range.

It just so happens the night I decided to search was the launch date of the Way Huge Supa-Puss.

So, I decided to order it at the stellar price of $250.

It's a pretty cool pedal offering up to 900ms delay via knobs, and a whopping 3 seconds via tap tempo.

The coolest thing is the ability to use many subdivisions for your echoes, and not only that, program the pedal to shift through these subdivisions is various sequences in the "chase" mode. Believe me this is an amazing feature that makes for incredible ambient washes of noise.

Now that I've learned to use the pedal, there are a couple elements of this pedal that have slightly defeated it's utility. There seems to be a latency in the tap tempo. It will track my stomped beat correctly, but it hesitates before it enacts it. This makes it fine for recording but absolutely useless for live performance (unless I tap beforehand or with the pedal in bypass mode)

So, my thoughts have turned again to the 104M . . .

Do these problems exists with the 104M?

What is the maximum length that can be acheived via tap tempo?

Re: Supa-Puss vs. 104M

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:32 am
by EMwhite
The 104M will max out at ~800ms. when on the long switch.

And many of the tape tempo based pedals that I've seen have a delay before the new setting kicks in. I've had the SeymourDuncan, T-Rex Replica, Diamond ML2, TC Flashback and now the MF-104M and also have a TC Flashback X4. The issue is that most say 2 or 3 or more taps when in truth they are taking either the average or the last n taps, then waiting for x amount of time to go by before they will calculate.

If the pedal is true analog or a digitally controlled analog pedal such as 104M, you'll then get the beeoooooww as the buckets clocking slows or speeds up. Fun to play with but sometimes annoying if live and you want a hard switch.

If the Supa is waiting more than the 'x' I referenced above (so figure you are tapping quarter notes at 96 bpm it has to wait at least for the fraction of the second that would have been your next tape then a safe margin to be sure that you weren't spazzing out and really meaning to kick something that was 60 bpm.) If it's true Analog BBD, the logic in the pedal might wait for the regens to empty before resetting the clock but if it really has 3 sec, I doubt it's analog.

My 104M is on a desktop and I don't bother with tap tempo but I'll play with it later and see how it behaves. One thing I can tell you is that you CAN get more than the 800ms delay from the 104M over Midi; much like the ClusterFlux, there are cc based controls and clock divider settings that will slow the clocking waaaaaaaaay down into lo-fi range. It's pretty interesting.

Re: Supa-Puss vs. 104M

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:34 am
by stiiiiiiive
I did not notice any behaviour as described on the 104M: it sets the new tempo after three taps, then it computes the average on the following taps untill you stop tapping for 5 seconds. You just have to tap a bar before the effective change.

Or I'm totally off topic…?

FWIW, the EHX Deluxe Memory Man with Tap Tempo is quite cool and very handy for a fraction of the Moog's price. The DMM 550 is even cheaper but has half the delay time of the former, 550 ms.

Re: Supa-Puss vs. 104M

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:24 pm
by Crowyote
The 3 secs of delay available in the Supa-puss is definitely via BBD. The echoes begin to ring modulate and distort quite heavily which is a cool effect especially in the "Chase" mode.

THe EHX 1100 ms DMTT was an option but, I wasn't sure if the taps could do extreme delay times, or if a chase mode was possible - making the subdivisions move in sequence. Plus, the Supa-Puss is about $200 cheaper.

I really wanna keep it, but if this latency issue keeps up I may have to jettison it. The manufacturer is not responding to my inquiry on it.

So no estimates on longest delays available in the 104M? Also can you make even the very longest delays repeat infinitely? On the Supa . .. I have to crank the gain alot to get it to echo on the long delays. Nearing 3 seconds of delay it just won't do infinite.

Re: Supa-Puss vs. 104M

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:00 pm
by stiiiiiiive
The DMMT is an cheap alternative to the Moog 104M.

The chase mode exists, as well as modulation, external feedback loop, external tap tempo input and feedback ramp when keeping the tap footswitch pressed: very cool feature :)

OR... the Deluxe Memory Boy: quite the same, sounds more like a beautiful pad tone under your instrument. Chase, external loop, tap tempo... even cheaper than any Memory Man.

Re: Supa-Puss vs. 104M

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:15 pm
by EricK
I like the aqua puss, but it wasn't anywhere near the 104z. I really couldn't get the delay I wanted on the sequencer.

I haven't tried the Super Puss yet....sounds like something that would be fantastic to try though.

The Aqua sounded great on guitar.

Re: Supa-Puss vs. 104M

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:14 pm
by Alien8
I hate to say it, but I had to choose between the 104M and something else. I wasn't totally convinced by the 104M for my needs - awesome pedal; not for me at the moment. I love the 104Z soooo much.

Moving away from analog, the Strymon Timeline filled my need gap perfectly. Sure it's not analog, but is it ever intuitive, and playable, just like the Moog. At the price of a DMM it sure does cover a lot of ground.

NOTHING does the 104z sound like a 104z; definitely my island pedal.

Re: Supa-Puss vs. 104M

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:32 am
by Crowyote
stiiiiiiive wrote:he chase mode exists, as well as modulation, external feedback loop, external tap tempo input and feedback ramp when keeping the tap footswitch pressed: very cool feature

OR... the Deluxe Memory Boy: quite the same, sounds more like a beautiful pad tone under your instrument. Chase, external loop, tap tempo... even cheaper than any Memory Man.


Cool. If I can come up with the extra $200+, I might get it.

Can you make the Chase Mode on the EHX do all kinds of patterns? . . . the Supa-Puss does ascending and descending as well as random

For now, I'm trying to make the Supa-Puss work . . . as far as I know it still has the longest capacity for tap-tempo delay. IT has 6 bucket brigade stashed in that little box . . .I haven't heard about them overclocking the 1100 DMMw/TT. Are you able to exceed the 1100ms via tap?

The 104z and SD were my desert island pedals, but I parted their company long ago. I like to have the longest delay possible to create all kinds of insane ambient washes.

http://soundcloud.com/crowyote/swang-blues

There are some examples on that demo track, but the greatest examples I haven't posted yet.

Re: Supa-Puss vs. 104M

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:42 am
by stiiiiiiive
The EHX chase mode is (pitch) ascending only. You won't be able to go beyond the time limit with tap tempo.

Alien8 wrote:NOTHING does the 104z sound like a 104z; definitely my island pedal.

Err... cannot get that. Did you mean nothing can make the 104M sound like a 104Z?

Re: Supa-Puss vs. 104M

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:17 am
by Crowyote
Still finding the Supa-Puss to be dope.

Here is another track . .. much more Puss and lots of Moog Guitar.

I really like the Ascending and Descending sequence on a very long delay. I could make them last longer by introducing more gain, but there's a catch because when you do you are running the risk of lots of strange oscillations sneaking up one you like the artifacts of a dark and twisted past. :twisted:


http://soundcloud.com/crowyote/skulling-bones-vs-insanatana

Re: Supa-Puss vs. 104M

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:45 pm
by Alien8
stiiiiiiive wrote:The EHX chase mode is (pitch) ascending only. You won't be able to go beyond the time limit with tap tempo.

Alien8 wrote:NOTHING does the 104z sound like a 104z; definitely my island pedal.

Err... cannot get that. Did you mean nothing can make the 104M sound like a 104Z?


What I mean is that the 104z sound is unique, and no other pedal can do it. The stock 104M can be *closely* cloned by other digital pedals - tho not exact - because it is so clearly voiced. The 104z's "clicky" nature doesn't get copied in these digital programs. The 104M would have a chance to sound like the 104Z with some outside influence.