MF102 inconsistency?
MF102 inconsistency?
I'm confused. The MF102 has a Cartier In and Out but the front panel reads Modulator. I was thinking that the Audio In signal is the modulator and the builtin oscillator is the Carrier (but the front panel reads otherwise). Do You think that it's a mistake on the part of Moog Music? I know that since ring modulation is signal multiplication (and multiplication is commutative, a x b = b x a) so the order doesn't matter, but it seems an inconsistency by Moog. Am I mistaken?
Re: MF102 inconsistency?
I was under the impresson that the combination of the mix knob and oscillator made the modulator.
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP251, MF102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ.
Re: MF102 inconsistency?
Still not very consistent with Ring Modulation theory? So the oscillator is the carrier and the audio in is the modulator and the front panel modulator sign refers to RM as a whole?
Re: MF102 inconsistency?
I'm guessing that's the case...according to the manual, the carrier oscillator is just that. The oscillator. So plugging something into the carrier input only messes with the oscillator, not the other components. Likewise, the Carrier out is only the output of the oscillator, not the RM as a whole.PHC wrote:Still not very consistent with Ring Modulation theory? So the oscillator is the carrier and the audio in is the modulator and the front panel modulator sign refers to RM as a whole?
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP251, MF102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ.
Re: MF102 inconsistency?
Ring mod is sum and difference not multiplication.
http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=12899
http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=12899
Voyager EB #165, T3 #292, MF101, 102, 103, 104SD, 2x104MSD, 105M, 107, 108M, MP201, VX351, CP251, Frostwave Fat Controller.
Re: MF102 inconsistency?
Pluging something into Carrier Input bypasses the built in oscillator and uses the thing You plug in as the carrier. I think that the rear sockets should be labeled as they are, but the front should be labeled Carrier in place of Modulator. I'm making a tutorial about the Ringmod and it's confusing as I'm talking about carrier oscilator and turning the knob under "modulator" label.
Re: MF102 inconsistency?
@c7sus: I believe kind Sir You are mistaken Ring Modulation is a process od signal multiplication (and that is commutative, so technically switching carrier and modulator produce the same effect). The "sums and differences" You are writing about are the frequencies that are products od ring modulation, thr process of RM itself is however signal multiplication. Read the maths if You like:
http://www.media.aau.dk/~sts/ad/modulation.html
http://www.media.aau.dk/~sts/ad/modulation.html
Re: MF102 inconsistency?
Nice link PHC.
I was in the c7sus camp believing Ring Modulation was the sum & difference outputs between two signals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_modulation states "Multiplication in the time domain is the same as convolution in the frequency domain, so the output waveform contains the sum and difference of the input frequencies."
Help me understand how multiplication results in sum & differences with regards to amplitude & frequencies.
I was in the c7sus camp believing Ring Modulation was the sum & difference outputs between two signals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_modulation states "Multiplication in the time domain is the same as convolution in the frequency domain, so the output waveform contains the sum and difference of the input frequencies."
Help me understand how multiplication results in sum & differences with regards to amplitude & frequencies.
Little Phatty TE #1023 • Schrittmacher • Walking Stick ribbon • Korg microXL/Electribe MX/KaossPro • Sonnus G2M
MF101 Filter • MF102 Ring • MF103 Phaser • MF104Z Delay • MF105 MuRF • MF107 FreqBox • MF108M Cluster • Etherwave
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MF101 Filter • MF102 Ring • MF103 Phaser • MF104Z Delay • MF105 MuRF • MF107 FreqBox • MF108M Cluster • Etherwave
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Re: MF102 inconsistency?
It's all there in that link.
Study the trygonometry equations and you'll see that multiplication becomes sum and difference.
Study the trygonometry equations and you'll see that multiplication becomes sum and difference.
Re: MF102 inconsistency?
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar00/a ... ecrets.htm
Chew on this...
Read the math behind amplitude modulation. It's very well described. Then scroll down to Ring Modulation and read that RMs are ACcoupled which doesn't allow the carrier and modulator to pass through.
Chew on this...
Read the math behind amplitude modulation. It's very well described. Then scroll down to Ring Modulation and read that RMs are ACcoupled which doesn't allow the carrier and modulator to pass through.
Re: MF102 inconsistency?
This guy does a pretty good job of explaining ring mod theory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATt_Hyf ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW8GQwv4 ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATt_Hyf ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW8GQwv4 ... re=related
Voyager EB #165, T3 #292, MF101, 102, 103, 104SD, 2x104MSD, 105M, 107, 108M, MP201, VX351, CP251, Frostwave Fat Controller.
Re: MF102 inconsistency?
i was confused too , seeing that there is modulator written on the oscillator section , which is in fact the carrier , I was confused because I wanted to be sure that the the carrier out is the oscillator out .

 Posts: 3
 Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:29 am
Re: MF102 inconsistency?
C7sus, thanks for the links,
Michael
Michael

 Posts: 3
 Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:52 pm
Re: MF102 inconsistency?
That`s right, I was confused too, the same reason.fuzulu wrote:I was confused because I wanted to be sure that the the carrier out is the oscillator out .
And  C7sus, thanks for the links and big thanks for share!