My Cluster Flux is really noisy...

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stuart_melvey
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My Cluster Flux is really noisy...

Post by stuart_melvey » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:47 am

I have the delay and the low pass filter, and the cluster flux is way noisier than both of them. Can anyone else confirm this? I'm not saying its unusable, but its very disappointing because there is a huge amount of hiss that comes from this pedal. I'm thinking of shipping it back but I'm not sure if anything is wrong with it.

Are there any ways to minimize noise? If you max out the drive and lower the output, there is less hiss but this creates overdriven tones that are not always appealing. Surely after making these pedals for 10 years Moog would have their circuitry running precisely? Or is it something to do with the bucket brigade chip?

Just to let you know, this pedal is indeed amazing and this is my only (albeit hugely annoying) quarrel with this machine.

namahshaman
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Re: My Cluster Flux is really noisy...

Post by namahshaman » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:17 am

I'm no expert, but it may just be your pedal. I recently added the cluster flux to my collection (LPF, freqbox, ring mod) and I have not noticed any extra noise from the flux. Like I said though, I am definitely not an expert. Hopefully other members with more experience will chime in and help you out. good luck.

shortsleeves
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Re: My Cluster Flux is really noisy...

Post by shortsleeves » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:36 am

Maybe check your power supply, and/or where you plug it in. E.g. recently I bought a very nice power brick (http://www.glab.com.pl/pb-1_en), and I use it to power up my MF's. I've used it with Freqbox, Ring Mod, CP-251, Murf. Of these only the Freqbox seems to be very fickle WRT the power supply. At my house, it doesn't like my power brick – it hisses like mad, until I use a separate, original Moog power adapter. But at my mate's house, it (Freqbox) was hissing when used with the Moog pa, but was dead quiet when used with the brick. Go figure.

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metron
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Re: My Cluster Flux is really noisy...

Post by metron » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:58 pm

The first MF-108 I got was unacceptably noisy. I sent it back and got another that has a little hiss but nothing close to what the first one had.
MF102, MF104M, CP251, Minitaur

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Re: My Cluster Flux is really noisy...

Post by moderator » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:39 am

Sorry you are experiencing this issue. Check that the input level and drive are optimized with peaks in the orange-red range and the output is around 11-1 o'clock. Also, if the time control is turned past 3 o'clock, this can increase noise because this is an analog unit. If you are still experiencing an issue please email service and we'll solve the problem as this is not common [email protected]

Thanks,
Moog
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stuart_melvey
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Re: My Cluster Flux is really noisy...

Post by stuart_melvey » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:07 am

Hi,

thanks for getting back to me. I should also add that I use an old vintage amp that is pretty sensitive, which isn't doing any favours. I will do a few more tests and get back to you. I can even make an audio clip that demonstrates the differences to make sure? It would be easier than shipping it back the Moog factory (I live in Australia).

cheers
Stuart

EMwhite
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Re: My Cluster Flux is really noisy...

Post by EMwhite » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:15 am

Just to add to this thread; as you may know, any BBD based device will inflect some noise with each regeneration, often this comes out as clocking sounds for analog delay type circuits. MF-104, Diamond Memory Lane II, Memory Boy Deluxe, MXR Carbon Copy are all architected more or less similarly the first two of which offer the most variable dynamics.

The ClusterFlux uses a pair of these chips and pushes the audio stages quite quickly (as compared to a delay) and while it's fun to push Feedback into the extremes; Ramp waves add click/clocking sounds (depending on other settings). Overall, yes there is hiss (at least on mine) so the trick is to minimize it with the right combination of drive and output as moderator mentioned.

Might also be worth mentioning that the version of firmware (original or 1.04 update) that you have in your ClusterFlux might exhibit slightly different behavior as far as the 'optics' are concerned. Said another way, depending on the type of signal you play through it, you might find the LEVEL LED behaving differently and not exactly as you would expect. Best to use your ears in this case and only pay half a mind to the LED. (I had this problem when I was playing my bass through the pedal when I initially received it) If you are driving it differently across the upgrade to get the same visual level out of the LED, you might end up either noisy/overdriven or low with less dynamics in which case you would tend to want to boost output (and add more hiss in the process).

Lots of range in the product and so there are multiple ways to potentially have less than optimal results OR (preferably) absolutely stunning output.
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Moog Music
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Re: My Cluster Flux is really noisy...

Post by Moog Music » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:17 am

stuart_melvey wrote:Hi,

thanks for getting back to me. I should also add that I use an old vintage amp that is pretty sensitive, which isn't doing any favours. I will do a few more tests and get back to you. I can even make an audio clip that demonstrates the differences to make sure? It would be easier than shipping it back the Moog factory (I live in Australia).

cheers
Stuart
That can certainly be a factor. If after your further testing you find your issue is not resolved, please contact [email protected] and we will work directly with you to resolve the issue.

77jordan
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Re: My Cluster Flux is really noisy...

Post by 77jordan » Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:34 pm

EMwhite wrote:Just to add to this thread; as you may know, any BBD based device will inflect some noise with each regeneration, often this comes out as clocking sounds for analog delay type circuits. MF-104, Diamond Memory Lane II, Memory Boy Deluxe, MXR Carbon Copy are all architected more or less similarly the first two of which offer the most variable dynamics.
I have both the Memory Lane 2 and MF-104z, and the ML2 is dead quiet compared to the MF-104z. Just sayin'

Trouble
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Re: My Cluster Flux is really noisy...

Post by Trouble » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:38 pm

Hi everyone,

I am also having an issue with the 108. When the pedal is in bypass, the signal is silent, but when I turn the pedal on, I can actually hear the "sweeps" in the background, even when nothing is being played. I own the 101, 102, 104, and 105; none of these pedals sound anywhere close to this noisy when turned on. Is my pedal defective? I have tried powering it through a couple different outlets, and nothing seems to resolve the issue.

stuart_melvey
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Re: My Cluster Flux is really noisy...

Post by stuart_melvey » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:34 am

I am starting to think that there is not anything particularly wrong with my 108m, but all the things mentioned are very true. I can get great sounding chorus effects in the right settings - but I have pretty much stopped placing the Time knob at its maximum because the background noise is too much thanks to Moderator's comment.

I agree with Trouble in that the chorus does make sweeping noises even when there is no sound going through the pedal. I think this has something to do with the nature of modulation effects. Even some plug-ins (like the Sound Toys Phaser) create sweeping sounds, when you absolutely know no audio is going through it.

Also another question - do many people use compressors after their Moog effects? i find it very useful for taming things that drive the audio level to extreme amounts (like the resonance on the 101, feedback on 104 and 108m etc). But it does make these awesome pedals sound worse than they should. Sending a signal through a bunch of analogue effects adds noise regardless and the compressor pushes these artifacts up.

I am considering getting a Sound Sculpture Switchblade GL mainly for its routing capabilities, but I'm also hoping it will help getting a cleaner signal through the pedals by making sure the impedance and gain is optimized for each pedal.

flippo
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Re: My Cluster Flux is really noisy...

Post by flippo » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:39 am

if you turn the feedback up of course it's going to make noise. Anything with feedback, particularly analog, is going to make noise on its own.

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Voltor07
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Re: My Cluster Flux is really noisy...

Post by Voltor07 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:59 pm

stuart_melvey wrote:I am starting to think that there is not anything particularly wrong with my 108m, but all the things mentioned are very true. I can get great sounding chorus effects in the right settings - but I have pretty much stopped placing the Time knob at its maximum because the background noise is too much thanks to Moderator's comment.

I agree with Trouble in that the chorus does make sweeping noises even when there is no sound going through the pedal. I think this has something to do with the nature of modulation effects. Even some plug-ins (like the Sound Toys Phaser) create sweeping sounds, when you absolutely know no audio is going through it.

/snip/

I am considering getting a Sound Sculpture Switchblade GL mainly for its routing capabilities, but I'm also hoping it will help getting a cleaner signal through the pedals by making sure the impedance and gain is optimized for each pedal.
My MF 103 sweeps when there is no audio going into it. It's what analog circuitry does. You could have saved a ton of money buying digital effects if you didn't want a bunch of artifacts and noise. Just saying... :)
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Trouble
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Re: My Cluster Flux is really noisy...

Post by Trouble » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:19 pm

I understand that analog hardware will have more noise compared to digital hardware. What I am saying is that my 108 I noisy to the point that it is distracting when the pedal is on and nothing is being played. I have tried setting the pedal at the recommended levels for flange, chorus, etc in the manual, so I don't think it's a matter of having drive, output, or feedback turned up too high.

Has anyone else had this issue? You can hear the background noise change as you turn the knobs, even when you aren't actually playing anything through the pedal. Like I said, I own the 101, 102, 104z, and 105. None of those pedals have had this problem before.

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MC
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Re: My Cluster Flux is really noisy...

Post by MC » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:00 am

The chain of effects may make a difference.

When I put the MF108 first in the chain it was noisy. When I put it last in the chain, I got a lot less noise. I went MF103->MF108 and it worked better.
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