End of the line for Mf-104Z????

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End of the line for Mf-104Z????

Post by Headphones » Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:58 am

I finally got to play one last week, but I'm job hunting at the moment. I was on my facebook account and I got this message from Moog.



NEWS: As we announced when it was introduced 5 years ago, the MF 104Z Analog Delay would be a product with a limited lifecycle. Its time has now come. Counting what we will make this month, plus existing stock we estimate that there are only 200 units left for purchase worldwide. If you would like to obtain one of these final units, please visit your local dealer or Moog Music as soon as possible.

I'm job hunting at the moment, but have no idea when I'll find one. I'm clearly not ready for Moog to end the MF-104z, so 200 units could sell out soon from the news they just announced. I'm okay with it if they plan to have a better MF-104 to replace the 104z, but it sounds like that won't even happen. I know one thing, I guess this will mean I won't be getting a MF-102/3/5/7 as my next Moogerfooger....

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Re: End of the line for Mf-104Z????

Post by EricK » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:04 pm

There will still be stores that will have them for awhile, you will still be able to get one. NovaMusik will be the place to go until they anounce the final one has left (so you don't have to shell out the 699).
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Re: End of the line for Mf-104Z????

Post by Headphones » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:55 pm

I'd ideally just like to find a used one so that I'd only have to cough up $5-600 tops, but now that Moog has let the cat out of the bag, they'll probably just skyrocket in value on eBay.

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Re: End of the line for Mf-104Z????

Post by latigid on » Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:45 pm

We might see an MF-104Y. It's probably end of the line for MN series BBD chips, but there are some new components being fabbed, for example in the EXH Flanger Hoax.
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Last edited by latigid on on Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Headphones
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Re: End of the line for Mf-104Z????

Post by Headphones » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:38 pm

As long as Moog has some CV analogue delay Moogerfooger on the market, then I can live with that and whatever letter of the alphabet they want to go down the line on. But just walking away from it altogether I just find rather strange. Sure I could buy any delay pedal out there, but it just wouldn't be a Moogerfooger. I had in my mind owning all of them, and even though it's a pipe dream, I still just want to make it reality. Now, if the 104z is being phased out, so that they can release a Mf-104Midi, then I'd welcome that with a open wallet for sure!!! (Well, once I can find/keep a job to pay for it) We'll just have to see, but I really do hope Moog does plan to keep some sort of Mf-104 on the market, even if the z is going to fade into history.

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Re: End of the line for Mf-104Z????

Post by EMwhite » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:16 pm

Diamond announced end-of-the-line for the Memory Lane II for a similar reason (availability of Panasonic NOS BBD drying up); many people cried foul saying it's a publicity stunt to try and drive up demand.

In Moog's case (they were content to sell a somewhat higher priced unit to a decreasing group of devoted analog Foog'ies [us]) but this may be a product strategy (new release of product pending), it also could be lack of demand (people content to buy one of the 100 other brands of analog/digital/or hybrid delays) they sure do fancy things these days; Have a look at El Capistan http://store.strymon.net/products/El-Ca ... -Echo.html for $299 or EHX's latest (even less cash), or something else. Whether or not they re-release the 104 with Midi clock sync (like MuRF) and different internals or do something else all together won't be known anytime soon.

Moog released the 105M while still shipping 105 and "B". Some people were thrilled to have a 'pure' analog pedal with no Midi, others felt ripped off. They'll never make everybody happy but a 5 year run for a 'limited availability' product is pretty darn good.

Eric; want to sell yours?
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Re: End of the line for Mf-104Z????

Post by EricK » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:48 pm

I seriously was considering selling it because it has been repaired twice. If they would have totally replaced the board inside, I had my mind made up tht I would sell it like another member did. I was looking to replace it with perhaps a COTK vc delay even thats digital. (CV is more important to me)

My friend brought over the Way Huge Aqua Puss, which only has a delay time of 300ms, and it sounded fantastic on his guitar but I didn't have time to dial in perfection with the Voyager. It is a good reccomendation for an Analog Delay though, I looked at the board and it was only connected to the chassis by the pots so I assumed that it could easily be modded to fit a modular synth panel.

But after getting it back yesterday, its such a dramatic step up from the Puss, the magical shimmering of my voyager returned and this morning I opened up facebook to find that I will in fact NOT be selling it even though they didn't replace the board.

Once I got this delay I realized that I can't live without it.
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Re: End of the line for Mf-104Z????

Post by DeFrag » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:42 am

Good thing I have one!

I'd like another though...
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Re: End of the line for Mf-104Z????

Post by woodington » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:48 pm

The UK distributor has been telling all retailers for a fair while now that the 104's were getting near the end, due to the BBD chips inside.
I can't imagine there would be any other reason to discontinue the pedal, unless as you say there is a new design pending.

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Re: End of the line for Mf-104Z????

Post by stuart_melvey » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:28 am

I really hope that someone has a clue to whether it is the bucket chips or they plan to release a new one. My spidey senses told me that if they do release a new one, it might not be for a while. I decided not to gamble and bought one today.

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Re: End of the line for Mf-104Z????

Post by EricK » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:20 pm

When Moog released the 104z, Ill paraphrase what they said.

"Alot of folks have been requesting that we remake the 104 delay. Moog has aquired some of the last Bucket Brigade Delay chips and we are proud to release the 104z, this time with 1000ms of delay time" something like that.

We DO know that the Diamond memory lane II is suffering the same fate. The Panasonic chips are simply scarce.

What we cannot speak to at this point is whether or not they will make another one with a different chip.
Last edited by EricK on Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: End of the line for Mf-104Z????

Post by Sir Nose » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:36 pm

Anyone have any knowledge of the difference between the Panasonic and "re-issue" BBD by Shanghai Belling or others? Ibanez AD-9 reissue uses the clone chips as do some other analog delays on the market.

Of course the NOS sounds "more alive", possibly "fatter" or "more fluid", but really how much difference is there in the signal comming out of the chip?

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Re: End of the line for Mf-104Z????

Post by CTRLSHFT » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:44 am

I bought a EHX Memory Boy a while back, gotta say I'm loving it despite the rather surprising amount of controversy over newly manufactured BBDs. I would LOVE to see Moog get to work on a new analog delay using BBDs that are easer to acquire/being made currently. I think they'd be able to do a lot with it in the MIDI department (or maybe just a tap tempo feature), not to mention probably be able to offer it for way less money, something closer to the MIDI MuRF.
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Re: End of the line for Mf-104Z????

Post by LivePsy » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:14 pm

Maybe its time to retire BBD. It was the best technology could do for a short window. Some of the most beloved technologies were the best people could do until something better came along. In this case the poor frequency spectrum through a BBD severly limits its usefulness. With no high frequencies above 2-3KHz coming through, the echoes quickly become mud. Some of the best delays are when the delay is highpassed so each repeat gets thinner and crisper. The external loop can be incredibly creative, which attracted me to the 104. But its frequeny characteristics disappointed me. I can't see any problem with the same design but with a ADC, digital delay and DAC replacing the BBD. You listen to CDs right? Its the surrounding analog design and components which would still give it character. How about adding an analog EQ pre or post the external loop to colour the delays? The 105 is pretty good, but it only boosts not cuts. There's still plenty of features to add without selling out as a digital guitar fx clone.

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Re: End of the line for Mf-104Z????

Post by analoghaze » Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:07 pm

The delay in the Filratron sounds darn good.
With the right hook up cables, the possibilities and sounds are great.
Touch interface is super fun!
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