Is it possible to get MF-104M synced repeats for eternity?

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stephan___martin
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Is it possible to get MF-104M synced repeats for eternity?

Post by stephan___martin » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:03 pm

Recently I bought a used Moogerfooger MF-104M and I have been trying to send some sounds into the MF-104M and get them to repeat (and evolve) for eternity, and create some crazy cool sounds. However, even though I have it synced via MIDI to Ableton I find it hard to get the sounds from MF-104M and Ableton to sync over time, and it feels like the moogerfooger delay is drifting a bit. Perhaps somewhere around 0.05 bpm when having the daw clock at 120bpm (my guess after inspecting the recordings). Enough for it to really feel out of sync after about 15-30 seconds.

Is this just how dBucket delays works, and I should pick another tool for the job?

I have also been experimenting with a Strymon Timeline (using the digital dBucket algorithm), and I think it also drifts a little over time. However, the digital delay algorithm on the Timeline is perfect on time for very very long time though.

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MRNUTTY
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Re: Is it possible to get MF-104M synced repeats for eternity?

Post by MRNUTTY » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:52 pm

If there is no synchronization between them, no two free-running oscillators will stay in synch for long. Even crystal controls with only several part per million error will shortly diverge.

I don't know what "synced via MIDI to Ableton" means, if may obviate what I just said.
VoyagerEB, Minitaur, LittlePhattyII, 4xSlimPhatty, Sub37, MF[2x101,2x102,103,104M,105,105B,105M,2x107,108M], 3xCP251, XV351, MP201;
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andybutler
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Re: Is it possible to get MF-104M synced repeats for eternity?

Post by andybutler » Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:13 pm

I guess we're talking midi sync here.

The answer is basically a no.

When a delay is midi synced it's never perfect, because midi is inherently inaccurate.

As log as feedback isn't full up, you never notice.

Once you have repeating audio, then to stay in sync you'd have to hardsync the audio, checking for it going out and then when it's noticeably out you'd need to shift the audio in some way to keep it in line.

That's going to cause a glitch in the audio, and if you're feeding audio in at the time that glitch gets recorded.

So the long answer is....not without compromise of audio.

That's for every delay ever, not just the MF-104M., and it's a constant issue with loop pedals.

Acid Mitch
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Re: Is it possible to get MF-104M synced repeats for eternity?

Post by Acid Mitch » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:56 am

andybutler wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:13 pm I guess we're talking midi sync here.

The answer is basically a no.

When a delay is midi synced it's never perfect, because midi is inherently inaccurate.
That depends what gear your talking about. Using things like USAMO, Inner clock or similar devices you can send completely accurate jitter free MIDI from your daw.
Also sequencers like Cirklon or older mpc’s will output rock solid midi.
If midi was “inherently inaccurate” then that wouldn’t be possible.

andybutler
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Re: Is it possible to get MF-104M synced repeats for eternity?

Post by andybutler » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:17 am

Depends on your DAW.
If it's Ableton then no chance.
"Rock solid midi" is a thing, but it just means "not like Ableton".
Midi is serial data at a fairly low rate, if you're only sending clocks sure it's theoretically possible to send a very regular clock.
Then, with the latency being a non issue your clock is as good as any other.

However, if the 2 devices aren't locked together at the audio sample rate you'll still get issues if you look for them.

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