MF-104 Ext. Loop vs. Before or After

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_DemonDan_
Posts: 1262
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:52 pm

MF-104 Ext. Loop vs. Before or After

Post by _DemonDan_ » Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:33 pm

There's a lot of references to the Ext. Loop found in all 4 versions
of the MF-104, but I'm wondering if those who've never owned any
104s (or other delays with a Feedback Loop) have a clear idea of
the various sonic results of placing a second effect before, after,
or inside, the delay.

It's not necessarily intuitive until you've tried all three routings with
effects that are important to you.

Delay with Resonant Phaser

Phaser Before Delay:
Original note has Phaser. Echoes repeat the
exact same Phaser sweep as original (only later).

Phaser After Delay: Original note has Phaser. Echoes and original
note all share the same sweep, at the same time.

Phaser in Ext. Loop - 104M: Original note does not have Phaser.
1st echo gets normal Phaser. 2nd echo gets a Phasing of the already
Phased 1st echo. 3rd echo gets a Phasing of the already doubly-Phased
2nd echo. 4th echo gets a Phasing of the already triply-Phased 3rd echo.
Etc...or, in other words, a dry original note, then a Phase that starts at
the 1st echo and gets thicker and bubblier with each repeat.

Phaser in Ext. Loop - 104( )(Z)(SD): Original note does not have
Phaser. 1st echo also does not have Phaser. 2nd echo gets normal Phaser.
3rd echo gets a Phasing of the already Phased 2nd echo. 4th echo gets
a Phasing of the already doubly-Phased 3rd echo. Etc...or, in other words,
a dry original note and a dry 1st echo, then a Phase that starts at the 2nd
echo and gets thicker and bubblier with each repeat after that.


Delay with Pitch Shifter at +1/2 Step (100%Wet)

Pitch Shifter Before Delay:
Original note has a +1/2 Step Pitch Shift.
Echoes all have the exact same Pitch as original (only later).

Pitch Shifter After Delay: Original note has a +1/2 Step Pitch Shift.
Echoes all have the exact same Pitch as original.

Pitch Shifter in Ext. Loop - 104M: Original does not have Pitch Shift.
1st echo has a +1/2 Step Pitch Shift. 2nd echo has a +1 Step Pitch Shift.
3rd echo has a +1 1/2 Step Pitch Shift. 4th echo has a +2 Step Pitch Shift.
Etc...or, in other words, a climbing chromatic scale starting from your
original note.

Pitch Shifter in Ext. Loop - 104( )(Z)(SD): Original note does not
have Pitch Shift. 1st echo also doesn't have Pitch Shift. 2nd echo has a +1/2
Step Pitch Shift. 3rd echo has a +1 Step Pitch Shift. 4th echo has a +1 1/2
Step Pitch Shift. 5th echo has a +2 Step Pitch Shift. Etc...or, in other words,
a climbing chromatic scale that starts climbing after your original note and
the 1st echo have played the original pitch.

Please correct me if I've made any mistakes or typos as this was written
outdoors on an iPad, miles away from my 'foogers, while enjoying 4th of
July beers and other amusements.
_ :twisted: _DemonDan_ :twisted: _

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ummagumma
Posts: 457
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:37 pm
Location: Canada

Re: MF-104 Ext. Loop vs. Before or After

Post by ummagumma » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:56 pm

thx for the explanation Dan!

useful stuff

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stiiiiiiive
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Re: MF-104 Ext. Loop vs. Before or After

Post by stiiiiiiive » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:08 pm

Seems correct :)

I've used a 104Z and then a 104M over the years and I was first disappointed by the fact the Z won't affect the first echo when using the external loop. 104M (and I guess the 104MSD) had this implemented in a way that makes way more sense to me.

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misterpete
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:16 am

Re: MF-104 Ext. Loop vs. Before or After

Post by misterpete » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:40 am

Hi Dan

I have the MF-104Z and the MF-104M
I never got the MOD done on the 104Z and I'm not sure if the previous owner did…
but I can't seem to get spillover mode working properly on my 104M either which I bought new from a retialer around the time it was originally released

How can I get this feature working on either or both pedals?

THANKS, PETE
_DemonDan_ wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:33 pm
There's a lot of references to the Ext. Loop found in all 4 versions
of the MF-104, but I'm wondering if those who've never owned any
104s (or other delays with a Feedback Loop) have a clear idea of
the various sonic results of placing a second effect before, after,
or inside, the delay.

It's not necessarily intuitive until you've tried all three routings with
effects that are important to you.

Delay with Resonant Phaser

Phaser Before Delay:
Original note has Phaser. Echoes repeat the
exact same Phaser sweep as original (only later).

Phaser After Delay: Original note has Phaser. Echoes and original
note all share the same sweep, at the same time.

Phaser in Ext. Loop - 104M: Original note does not have Phaser.
1st echo gets normal Phaser. 2nd echo gets a Phasing of the already
Phased 1st echo. 3rd echo gets a Phasing of the already doubly-Phased
2nd echo. 4th echo gets a Phasing of the already triply-Phased 3rd echo.
Etc...or, in other words, a dry original note, then a Phase that starts at
the 1st echo and gets thicker and bubblier with each repeat.

Phaser in Ext. Loop - 104( )(Z)(SD): Original note does not have
Phaser. 1st echo also does not have Phaser. 2nd echo gets normal Phaser.
3rd echo gets a Phasing of the already Phased 2nd echo. 4th echo gets
a Phasing of the already doubly-Phased 3rd echo. Etc...or, in other words,
a dry original note and a dry 1st echo, then a Phase that starts at the 2nd
echo and gets thicker and bubblier with each repeat after that.


Delay with Pitch Shifter at +1/2 Step (100%Wet)

Pitch Shifter Before Delay:
Original note has a +1/2 Step Pitch Shift.
Echoes all have the exact same Pitch as original (only later).

Pitch Shifter After Delay: Original note has a +1/2 Step Pitch Shift.
Echoes all have the exact same Pitch as original.

Pitch Shifter in Ext. Loop - 104M: Original does not have Pitch Shift.
1st echo has a +1/2 Step Pitch Shift. 2nd echo has a +1 Step Pitch Shift.
3rd echo has a +1 1/2 Step Pitch Shift. 4th echo has a +2 Step Pitch Shift.
Etc...or, in other words, a climbing chromatic scale starting from your
original note.

Pitch Shifter in Ext. Loop - 104( )(Z)(SD): Original note does not
have Pitch Shift. 1st echo also doesn't have Pitch Shift. 2nd echo has a +1/2
Step Pitch Shift. 3rd echo has a +1 Step Pitch Shift. 4th echo has a +1 1/2
Step Pitch Shift. 5th echo has a +2 Step Pitch Shift. Etc...or, in other words,
a climbing chromatic scale that starts climbing after your original note and
the 1st echo have played the original pitch.

Please correct me if I've made any mistakes or typos as this was written
outdoors on an iPad, miles away from my 'foogers, while enjoying 4th of
July beers and other amusements.
Please Call Me, PETE
https://petedako.bandcamp.com/music
"Mr. Pete" at MuffWiggler |@petedako on Twitter

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stiiiiiiive
Posts: 2287
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:58 pm
Contact:

Re: MF-104 Ext. Loop vs. Before or After

Post by stiiiiiiive » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:18 am

A long press on the bypass footswitch will change the status LED color from red to orange. Voilà!
That must be in the manual, by the way ;) (except the level point, as far as I remember).

I noticed the following: I have to set the FX off and on once to match the bypass level and the FX level.

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