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so many bugs, and no arrival date.

Polyphonic Analog Synthesizer

so many bugs, and no arrival date.

Postby lushr » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:50 am

i’m seriously thinking of cancelling my order. after seeing the 1.0.3 video and all the bugs it HASNT resolved, all the basic features like MIDI that aren’t functional.

and still no word of when they might arrive in australia. i ordered mine they week of announcement when i was told it might be in November. and have heard nothing since.

people don’t buy their rolls royce with windows that won’t wind down, and faulty indicator lights, and buzzing fans. i don’t need $10,000 of hassle sitting in my studio.

unimpressed.
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Re: so many bugs, and no arrival date.

Postby Euxine » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:50 am

I agree with you in a way, and it's a frustrating thought as the Moog One would so nicely round out my studio for the foreseeable.

On the one hand, I'm totally convinced that the Moog team want to do right by the product. This is evident in the sheer amount of effort and time they spent soliciting industry feedback to shape the design, as well as the aspiration to rise above 'also-rans' in terms of featureset and do something special. I also understand that at some point, if you don't release a product, then you can't recover losses - which can eventually lead to the death of the product because of cash starvation.

On the other hand, it seems impossible that Moog wasn't aware of the 'defect profile' of the device (for lack of a better term) prior to release, and seemed to take the route of glossing over those bugs in the early campaigning (webcasts, etc). Following on from that, the firmware updates have been very slow. I don't underestimate the effort required, but zooming out on the last few months, it seems to me that the expectation set for improvements is not matching the velocity of changes rolling out.

In addition (and to be quite frank), the people leading the last couple of webcasts have not been the most appropriate choice. I fully understand the appeal of putting engineers in front of the customer (e.g. 'let's show passion from inside the team, let's give thoughtful responses while we're on the webcast', etc etc), but the 1.0.2 and 1.0.3 webcasts just left me feeling that development will more or less continue on a trajectory that is not *significantly* affected by real customers. Maybe this is just in the way things were explained/handled on the webcast, but even so - keep Amos (or other product leads) in the drivers seat with engineers on hand to get into detail if need be. The whole point of a UX-led design process is changing direction according to what is most useful to the customer, even if this means abandoning theoretically elegant solutions.

Confidence from the customer base in early launch stages is absolutely essential to the success of the product, regardless of what the product is. Customer sentiment is just as important *if not more important* than objective progress in the beginning.

In that respect, until we're out of the woods with the defects preventing normal function of currently listed specifications, I think Moog should be working overtime to communicate carefully and comprehensively with their customers - that includes lead times - and indicate 'direction of travel' against commonly stated requests beyond that. Without doing so, they are risking the wind coming out of the sails, and losing the opportunity to grow (and/or shift) their customer base - particularly in view of the supply issue.

And sure, they run the risk of hinting at a feature that may not come to pass, but it seems to me more risky to give no indications whatsoever. A balance between these concerns should be possible.

Even though Moog has customers and potential customers that really believe they can create both an extraordinary AND stable synth, it does not mean that those customers have infinite patience. We will want to use these synths as reliable tools in our studios today, and we will want confidence we are not sinking cash into a questionable investment.

All that being the case - those of us with pre-orders are left thinking about whether we should pull out, which I'm assuming would cause a mess in terms of manufacturing queue and materials costs.

I'd really like to see a change in approach that at least goes part way to address the above.

Thoughts from others on this?
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Re: so many bugs, and no arrival date.

Postby iandaviddunlop » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:45 pm

Euxine wrote:In that respect, until we're out of the woods with the defects preventing normal function of currently listed specifications, I think Moog should be working overtime to communicate carefully and comprehensively with their customers - that includes lead times - and indicate 'direction of travel' against commonly stated requests beyond that. Without doing so, they are risking the wind coming out of the sails, and losing the opportunity to grow (and/or shift) their customer base - particularly in view of the supply issue.


Couldn't agree more. I'm an owner here and have been personally frustrated by the poor communication regarding support tickets / status.
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Re: so many bugs, and no arrival date.

Postby lushr » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:35 pm

there aren’t any in australia yet. and i really don’t want a user experience where i’m debugging something so expensive, i don’t hav e the time or energy for it. i need solutions in my studio not problems. and most people would second guess a $10,000 purchase if it wasn’t working perfectly. i just don’t need the buyers remorse. so i’ve cancelled.
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Re: so many bugs, and no arrival date.

Postby lushr » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:43 pm

and i agree Amos is a far better communicator. i pretty much agree with everything said above. i love the company, but i expect full midi implementation on any synth i buy. the most expensive one shouldn’t be any different there.
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Re: so many bugs, and no arrival date.

Postby Rokatansky » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:17 pm

I ordered mine last October expecting it on November but i was told by my distributor that the wood parts were wrong manufactured and the all lot was returned to the factory, so that was the delay reason.
Good for me, mine finally arrives next Wendsday.
I hope the reported bugs don't cause me so much trouble.
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Re: so many bugs, and no arrival date.

Postby lushr » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:41 am

yeah i really hope you get great enjoyment from your moog ones. atleast you got an explanation and arrival date.
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Re: so many bugs, and no arrival date.

Postby mildwest » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:13 pm

Just got mine this week and I’m loving it. I haven’t run into any bugs really myself. Granted I’m just starting to find my way around. I know there are some there as they have a list of unresolved issues. But outside the lack of full midi implementation there isn’t much bothering me and I’m confident that’s coming. I do have a hardware issue with the headphone outs but Moog is sending me a replacement unit on their dime and letting me keep this one until it arrives and gets picked up when the other is dropped off. Pretty great customer service. Literally happened overnight after I discovered the issue. So that also gives me great confidence as they stand behind their product.
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Re: so many bugs, and no arrival date.

Postby vwizz » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:27 am

Hi!
Ordered mine on day one, but being in France I’ll only get it in February or so...
You mentioned an issue with headphones out?
I hope it’s not going to be as on my Sub37 on which I had headphones out crackling.
Had to have one of the two boards replaced to fix it.
And one year after I’m starting to have the issue again... but guarantee is expired...

I don’t want to have a similar issue on a 40 pounds heavy synth and have to send it back for repair...
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Re: so many bugs, and no arrival date.

Postby mildwest » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:54 am

vwizz wrote:Hi!
Ordered mine on day one, but being in France I’ll only get it in February or so...
You mentioned an issue with headphones out?
I hope it’s not going to be as on my Sub37 on which I had headphones out crackling.
Had to have one of the two boards replaced to fix it.
And one year after I’m starting to have the issue again... but guarantee is expired...

I don’t want to have a similar issue on a 40 pounds heavy synth and have to send it back for repair...

They think it is a calibration issue with mine. They offered two solutions including return and replace so I took that one. Not crackling. It was unbalanced with most sound in the right ear cup. Still enjoying in the meantime connected to my mixer while I await the replacement. Haven’t heard anyone else with this issue. Think mine was just an exception.
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Re: so many bugs, and no arrival date.

Postby lushr » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:39 am

vwizz wrote:Hi!
And one year after I’m starting to have the issue again... but guarantee is expired...

I don’t want to have a similar issue on a 40 pounds heavy synth and have to send it back for repair...


yeah it’s fine if you’re in the states, but otherwise you’re stuffed.

is the repair guaranteed? seems like if it’s a known issue with your machine they should fix it properly.
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Re: so many bugs, and no arrival date.

Postby conradk » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:38 am

I completely empathize with you guys - but just feel lucky you aren't living in Chicago or Minneapolis. :-)

I ordered mine day one but gave up sometime in December after not hearing anything. I do plan to order though... but have been waiting until the delivery times are lower. I don't mind bugs as I'm not a professional musician - but I understand how they can be disconcerting, at least the results I have heard.

I bought a Sirin on the first day I heard about it, got an immediate update on what was happening with the build, when to expect the delivery, came right when it was expected and I can say I am impressed and super pleased with the sound and functionality. That was about a week from purchase to delivery-playing. I have it controlled by my Sub 37 and overall and very happy with the integration. A few of the Midi CCs are mapped wonky but just a minor annoyance.
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