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Moog One Bugs

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Re: Moog One Bugs (Envelope latch)

Postby paddy ryan » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:23 pm

• INIT PATCH, when in MONO/1 VOICE mode, if you turn SYNC, LOOP and LATCH 'ON' in the AMP ENV section, you can hear additional voices playing."


I have found that the LOOP/LATCH functionality in the AMP ENV section does not work properly. Sometimes pressing latch with no notes sounding will start sounding a bunch of notes that seem to be stuck in a buffer...

Aside the the above, The latch behaviour for the AMP ENV is odd.... once you have released all notes on the keyboard, it should RE-LATCH to whatever new notes are played. Currently it seems to just add them to the existing pool of notes.

It SEEMS that the other two EGs re-latch with new input.... as I would expect them to.
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Re: Moog One Bugs

Postby paddy ryan » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:26 pm

conradk wrote:
MWK wrote:Apple Keyboard 'Bug'

I'm trying to use a wired Apple keyboard on the Moog One and it doesn't respond when plugged in. I tested out another keyboard (Logitech) and it works. The Apple keyboard works fine on my iMac. Any ideas why it wouldn't work on the Moog One?


Yes I cant use my apple keyboard either
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MOOG ONE BUGS (Version 1.03)

Postby paddy ryan » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:39 pm

MY BUG LIST: Feb 24 2019. These have all been sent to MOOG over the past few weeks and I have not heard a word back on any of them! Version 1.03.

The XY pad:
There is no response from X or Y without actually pressing down on the pad (which then of course triggers the third control “pressure”). That doesn’t seem correct. I should be able to effectively slide a finger on the pad to generate X and Y control data without having to press down at the same time.

Also, there seems to be no sensitivity at the edges of the pad (perhaps related to the pressure thing above). So Values jump from 0 to the the first spot on the pad were it responds (with pressure only if course). The result is an abrupt jump in X and Y control values. (on the screen, you can see the little red dot at the edge of the pad, and see it jump to the first place it gets data from).

Is there something wrong with my pad??

USB Input: I get no response when I plug a USB computer keyboard in to the MOOG (for typing names etc. The USB port doesn’t seem to work.) Sure would make entering text a lot easier! and could be useful for data storage as well.

The Computer USB link seems fine.

Vocoder: The vocoder needs some work! First it is very fiddly to find a balance between signal (mic) input level and vocoder threshold settings to get it to work properly. Granted this only needs to happen once, and I did manage to get it under control.
BUT my big complaint is when as the vocoder mix level is adjust upwards, it also mixes in the raw modulator single (ie my voice). So at 100% I hear the vocoded signal AND my raw voice, with my voice being the loudest. I should only be hearing the vocoded synth sounds, MODULATED by my voice inflections. This is designed wrong.

Patch Change Artifacts: I often hear pretty prominent artifacts when switching patches. Not great for live!!

Preset/Timber browser: Many of the presets show nothing in the timbre display. Are these perhaps older presets that lost some compatibility with the newer operating versions?


STRANGE THING I came across a very strange thing when editing the "Solo Cello” preset. ANY modulator assigned to ANY of the SVF parameters didn’t do anything! Even though they were showing in the modulation list, they had absolutely zero effect on the filter. Worked fine on the Ladder filter. Also, anything in the cutoff modulation section (below the filters) worked fine on the SVF. Try it….turn your filter mix to only SVF, and try to modulate it via destination buttons or in modulation page! Cant figure out why for the life of me.
Of course I verified in other patches that this was not a problem at all.

One More Question: Where in the signal chain are the inserts? Before the effects or after?

Aftertouch: The aftertouch requires a pretty aggressive touch…. to get full modulation you have to press really hard… I ended up with sore wrists after using the aftertouch to modulate things! It seems this need to be calibrated to not require quite so much effort.


EXP 1 modulation assign: Assigning EXP 1 to any destination results in the destination value being changed by the amount of modulation assigned, IN SPITE OF the modulation source being at 0. If EXP 1 source does generate modulation data, it is ADDED to the amount already being sent by the modulation amount setting.
With another modulation sources, setting a modulation amount to a destination has no effect unless the modulator itself is set to anything other than 0. (Mod wheel, X Y Pad, envelopes, etc etc all work this way). Changing the modulation source to EXP 1 has an an entirely different behaviour, as outlined above. I did trouble shoot to make sure my EXP pedal was not generating positive data when at 0. This behaviour also remains even when nothing is plugged in to the EXP 1 jack!

Bottom line, the modulation amount assigned from EXP 1 to any destination sends that modulation amount regardless of the modulator’s position, and adds the modulators position data on top. This renders EXP 1 as a mod source unusable.
(Update, EXP 2 does the same thing....but has a much lower response ratio)

Stuck Note/Crash: On two occasions, my MOOG has become non-responsive, with whatever notes that are sounding just continuing. The only thing I could do was turn it off and on. I dont have a specific chain of events to associate with this…it just seemed to happen.

Unstable Notes: Several times during my exploration, I have come across a situation where playing a key will result in variations in tuning of the note. With some of the more complex patches, I thought that perhaps there was some deep programming error that may be causing this.
BUT: I also experienced this with the INIT patch, with only one oscillator and no modulation. (I sent videos of this to MOOG)

AMP ENV LATCH: Strange behavior...sometimes engaging LOOP and LATCH starts sounding notes when there are none active!
Also, it seems to latch permanently. If I release notes on the keyboard it continues to play them in loop mode (as it should). If I play a new series of notes, it just ADDS them to the previous ones. It should re-latch to the new set of notes (like the ARP does in hold mode.)
FILTER EG and MOD EG appear to behave as expected in LOOP/LATCH.
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Re: Moog One Bugs

Postby vwizz » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:02 am

Thanks for sharing!
I think it would be nice to have a shared/updated overall list of issues, with their status as seen from Moog (issue reproduced, under correction, delivered, to be delivered in release xxx of the OS)).

I just hope that they have that internally at least.

Cheers!
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Re: Moog One Bugs

Postby paddy ryan » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:05 pm

I am SURE they have a list!
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Re: Moog One Bugs

Postby _DemonDan_ » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:21 am

paddy ryan wrote:
conradk wrote:
MWK wrote:Apple Keyboard 'Bug'

I'm trying to use a wired Apple keyboard on the Moog One and it doesn't respond when plugged in. I tested out another keyboard (Logitech) and it works. The Apple keyboard works fine on my iMac. Any ideas why it wouldn't work on the Moog One?


Yes I cant use my apple keyboard either

Hi paddy,

I had previously said that Apple USB keyboards don't work but that PC USB Keyboards do.

Now I'm hearing from some folks that they are having different (and sometime opposite) results.

I suspect it has to do with USB compliance and not needing any drivers, but...

Anybody else have specific "works/doesn't work" examples?
Last edited by _DemonDan_ on Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MOOG ONE BUGS (Version 1.03)

Postby _DemonDan_ » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:32 am

paddy ryan wrote:Patch Change Artifacts: I often hear pretty prominent artifacts when switching patches. Not great for live!!

Hi paddy,

When you change presets, you're just changing the values of all the parameters.

If you have notes sounding, you're going to hear those parameters changing as they go from one value to another.

This can be very useful if you want to step through similar presets and have only specific parameters change while holding notes.

The alternative would be to temporarily silence the output each time you change presets (like on a lot of ROMplers).

I think there would be serious wailing from some musicians if it always did that. You could request a Global choice of "Mute Between Presets", but I don't know enough to know if that's even possible or not on a One.
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Re: MOOG ONE BUGS (Version 1.03)

Postby MWK » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:09 pm

_DemonDan_ wrote:
paddy ryan wrote:Patch Change Artifacts: I often hear pretty prominent artifacts when switching patches. Not great for live!!

Hi paddy,

When you change presets, you're just changing the values of all the parameters.

If you have notes sounding, you're going to hear those parameters changing as they go from one value to another.

This can be very useful if you want to step through similar presets and have only specific parameters change while holding notes.

The alternative would be to temporarily silence the output each time you change presets (like on a lot of ROMplers).

I think there would be serious wailing from some musicians if it always did that. You could request a Global choice of "Mute Between Presets", but I don't know enough to know if that's even possible or not on a One.


It helps to disable effects on a preset and overwriting the preset. I noticed that there are a lot less audio artifacts when you switch between presets with no effects. The effects re-configuring is mostly what creates those noises.
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Re: Moog One Bugs

Postby paddy ryan » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:21 am

Not so convenient to have to disable FX to change a patch without artifacts.

On my Access Virus, I can change a patch while a note(s) is/are sounding. That note and its associated FX will finish its cycle uninterrupted, while I can simultaneously start playing the new patch. Seamless! That's what I'd love to see on the ONE!

Would it be possible to maintain any active voices in the old patch, and start using new available voices in the new patch? At least until the old voices need to be used again?
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Re: Moog One Bugs

Postby Euxine » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:39 pm

paddy ryan wrote:Not so convenient to have to disable FX to change a patch without artifacts.

On my Access Virus, I can change a patch while a note(s) is/are sounding. That note and its associated FX will finish its cycle uninterrupted, while I can simultaneously start playing the new patch. Seamless! That's what I'd love to see on the ONE!

Would it be possible to maintain any active voices in the old patch, and start using new available voices in the new patch? At least until the old voices need to be used again?


This sounds like a good solution; but I'm wondering if it's only possible in a VA synth?
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Re: Moog One Bugs

Postby paddy ryan » Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:33 pm

MWK wrote:I've already sent an e-mail about these but it doesn't hurt to post them here to see if others are experiencing the same issues.

• INIT PATCH, when in MONO/1 VOICE mode, if you turn SYNC, LOOP and LATCH 'ON' in the AMP ENV section, you can hear additional voices playing.


EG Loop and latch are very problematic. Impossible to release old notes and re-latch to new ones!! Also, looping EGs results in frequent clicking/popping sounds with each EG cycle. I think I have determined that this popping/clicking occurs at the beginning of the release phase of the EG. It is not related to attack and/or release times. I cna sometimes be reduced by turning sustain all the way up or all the way down. But this is by no means a solution.
Too bad as the possibilities are AMAZING with the loop/latch feature, but it is currently unusable.
THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED!!!!
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Re: Moog One Bugs

Postby Euxine » Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:00 am

paddy ryan wrote:
MWK wrote:I've already sent an e-mail about these but it doesn't hurt to post them here to see if others are experiencing the same issues.

• INIT PATCH, when in MONO/1 VOICE mode, if you turn SYNC, LOOP and LATCH 'ON' in the AMP ENV section, you can hear additional voices playing.


EG Loop and latch are very problematic. Impossible to release old notes and re-latch to new ones!! Also, looping EGs results in frequent clicking/popping sounds with each EG cycle. I think I have determined that this popping/clicking occurs at the beginning of the release phase of the EG. It is not related to attack and/or release times. I cna sometimes be reduced by turning sustain all the way up or all the way down. But this is by no means a solution.
Too bad as the possibilities are AMAZING with the loop/latch feature, but it is currently unusable.
THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED!!!!


Hi Paddy, are you using a short attack? I haven't had any issues with looping EGs, even at near audio-rates.

I'll try to replicate your issue with loop/latch, but it's possible that not releasing on latch is actually intended behaviour. Have you tried using looping EGs with hold mode instead of using loop/latch to get the notes to change?
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Re: Moog One Bugs

Postby paddy ryan » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:22 pm

What's the point of latching until the end of time and never being able to release it (even after changing a patch)??? What possible application could there be??

As I mentioned, the attack and release times have no relationship to the click/pop in the EG loop.

I have indeed tried "hold" instead of latch when looping EGs. It's OK, but the looping artifacts remain a problem. It varies by patch. It can appear OK for a bit then starts happening. It seems to coincide with the point in the EG cycle where the delay starts.

Worth mentioning, I have ruled out FX as having any part of this as this problem remains with FX turned off.
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Re: Moog One Bugs

Postby Euxine » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:59 pm

paddy ryan wrote:What's the point of latching until the end of time and never being able to release it (even after changing a patch)??? What possible application could there be??


I think the application is to have a drone/tonal base underneath other notes? From the manual:

"Setting the LATCH button to On holds the Envelope open at the Sustain level, even after a key is released or the gate is closed. With the LATCH button On and the LOOP button set to On, the Envelope continues to cycle and loop, even after the key (or gate) is released."

I don't think the intention is for the EG to stay latched after changing the patch. Again, I'll try to replicate the other behaviours you're seeing.
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Re: Moog One Bugs

Postby paddy ryan » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:45 pm

Thanks for the dialogue! Its helpfull. I stills see no value of having no control of what is latched, and the latch feature would only make sense if one were able to re-latch at will, and dump the old bleep! But that said, using hold pretty much achieves this so maybe I dont care!

In other news, I've figure out whats going on in the EG LOOP! When looping, the EG exhibits different behavior than when just playing notes. When playing a note, the release starts at the sustain level and goes down from there.
When looping the EG, the release starts at the full level, regardless of where your sustain is set. So the decay will take the input down to whatever sustain level is set, and release jumps it abruptly back to full level before commencing it's release. You can hear the EG cycle generate two peaks....one at the peak of the attack ramp, and the other at the start of the release ramp. So the artifacts I am hearing is the EG level jumping abruptly form sustain level to full level every time the release segment is reached.
The problem is reduced by having sustain set at full, but that really limits the EG.

What I found can pretty much eradicate the problem is setting the EG release curve to 100% log. This creates a positive curve that softens the transition from the set sustain level to the full sustain level that the release starts at.
This at least makes the EG looping more useable. But this is definitely something that should be looked at.
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