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Re: Moog One - Not For Everybody

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:21 pm
by jmcecil
Ears are also responsible for horrible confirmation bias aliasing... :roll:

I have actual oscilloscopes, tone generators etc.. For the practical purposes of the discussion the scopes and analysis tools on the computer through quality DACs is sufficient. The wave shapes on the One are NOT voyager shapes. They are closer to D shapes. The harmonic analysis has a couple of unique factors .. including a broader low bass and a upper mid push on the ONE. No need to be pico accurate to hear this to be true.

Re: Moog One - Not For Everybody

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:22 pm
by PhilAiken
jmcecil wrote:Ears are also responsible for horrible confirmation bias aliasing... :roll:

I have actual oscilloscopes, tone generators etc.. For the practical purposes of the discussion the scopes and analysis tools on the computer through quality DACs is sufficient. The wave shapes on the One are NOT voyager shapes. They are closer to D shapes. The harmonic analysis has a couple of unique factors .. including a broader low bass and a upper mid push on the ONE. No need to be pico accurate to hear this to be true.



I know you are quite aware of this, so really posting to tother readers. All this stuff is true WHEN you master the oscillators/filters/envelopes and dial things in.
There is a tendency, which I totally understand, to grab an init patch, turn on the default saw waves, crank up some resonance on the ladder filter and expect to hear a Mini. Doesn't happen. You really need to dial in the harmonic content in the Oscillators, realize that the filter does not behave in the exact same way, mess with the envelopes, etc.
After a while, one can get pretty good on taking any random Mini patch and matching it on the One. At that point it is subjective as to which sounds better. But then, you can make the One patch polyphonic, add all kinds of modulation and performance parameters, etc. etc.

Re: Moog One - Not For Everybody

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:31 am
by MWK
PhilAiken wrote:There is a tendency, which I totally understand, to grab an init patch, turn on the default saw waves, crank up some resonance on the ladder filter and expect to hear a Mini. Doesn't happen.


I miss the immediacy of that! What would you suggest as a shortcut to Mini on the One?

Re: Moog One - Not For Everybody

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:43 pm
by jmcecil
MWK wrote:
PhilAiken wrote:There is a tendency, which I totally understand, to grab an init patch, turn on the default saw waves, crank up some resonance on the ladder filter and expect to hear a Mini. Doesn't happen.


I miss the immediacy of that! What would you suggest as a shortcut to Mini on the One?

I made a set of saw, and shark presets that were pre-gain staged. Now if I start with one of those, the interface is nearly identical and just as immediate. And, the sound is more open and "buzzy" than the stock init.

I can't remember every tweak, but it's mostly overcoming the odd setup of the main init patch. However, I made a copies so that I have an SVF version, series and parallel version of each.

Osc 1 mixer to full (it's not in the init)
Osc 1 waveshape to full saw (it's not quite in the init)
Filter full Open (it's not in the default)
VCA full Open (it's not in the default)
Sustain on Amp and Filter EG full open and all others full closed (it's not in the default)
EG to Filters full open (it's not in the default)
Set Synth 1 to mono (it's not in the default)
Set EG attacks to 50% Log ... this needs to be messed with quite a bit, but log on the attack seems more "correct" to me.

Those are the main ones. I did a few other little things. But really the stock init patch is like a dialed back platform for Poly use. By just opening things up and starting from a more aggressive "D" vibe I was able to get mono synth sounds that had a more familiar feel much faster. But, it is NOT a great starting point for poly sounds.

Here's an opinion on poly ... go find any great non-piano-ish (clav etc..) "poly" sound and you will find that it is swamped in chorus or phaser. I get absolutely fabulous poly sounds if you I use good external effects. I think another issue folks are having with the One from a poly standpoint is they are expecting the JP and Juno experience just turning on the chorus for the instant OHHH YEAHHHH BABY. The internal chorus just doesn't do that magic thing. However, sending out to my MF-103 with a spring reverb and OOOOHHH YEEEAAAH BABY!!!! Unfortunatley the only tri-chorus I have is a plugin ... so waiting for that B clone Juno Chorus :D

Re: Moog One - Not For Everybody

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:56 pm
by jmcecil
Another biggie for Poly ... use the SVF

Also, use the SVF in LP and the Ladder in HP in series for 12 db mono. Unfortunately it doesn't self oscillate so you don't quite get to those really aggressive ends of the scale.
You can also use the SVF in parallel to get the bass back into the Ladder.

Re: Moog One - Not For Everybody

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:35 pm
by PhilAiken
To add to the excellent posts above - Putting the 2 filters in series, SVF in LP, Cutoff at Max, resonance cranked, but listening only to the output of the Ladder can get things even more aggressive and buzzy.

Re: Moog One - Not For Everybody

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:04 pm
by jmcecil
PhilAiken wrote:To add to the excellent posts above - Putting the 2 filters in series, SVF in LP, Cutoff at Max, resonance cranked, but listening only to the output of the Ladder can get things even more aggressive and buzzy.

Oh yeah .. this for sure. I was really surprised how much interactions the filters have even when one or the other is off ...

This reminded me of another little quirk that helped my D Init patches.
The filter mix knob needs to be max towards the filter being used (unless of course you are blending). There seems to be a db or two drop at the center of the mix knob.

Re: Moog One - Not For Everybody

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:19 pm
by galaxiesmerge
Well, well, well ... Just ordered the Moog One 16 Voice despite having thought to the contrary for the past months.

Just for comparison and reference: I own the CS80, Schmidt 8-Voice, Prophet (T8 and X), Chroma, Solaris, many others etc ... etc ... Here's what I did this year: I tried to see the Moog One at NAMM unsuccessfully but only "serious" buyers were let in to the booth. I admit this was a turn-off. Not recommended. You should if you have a booth at least honor the people that pay for the prices to get to NAMM to have some kind of experience.

In any case, the Moog One had a number of complaints leveled against it and my friends at the time did not plunge into the brand name.

Finally, this week, I ended up getting a Moog One 16 voice not because of brand because brand after Bob Moog means less and the people have to work to live up to his legacy. Now, having gotten a Waldorf Quantum a few weeks backs from the fine folks at Sweetwater I had shared perhaps I would still be interested. In any case, The Waldorf is amazing.

After being in the "Not For Everybody" camp, then: Why did I get a Moog One?

The answer is rather stupid and simple - I used to be in the category of the Moog One is NOT FOR ME because I already own the top synths. Having listened carefully and thought about it, and remember that I bought a Schmidt which is arguably the most expensive (an equally amazing) synth at roughly 3x the price of a Moog, I found that there is indeed a Moog sound and design that complements the rest of my keys. It is not that the Moog One is The Best Synth, but, it is that it is a very Unique Moog Synth that reflects the modern era. If Yamaha built a new CS80 re-issue I am sure it would be different to the CS80 just like Moog One is different to the Memorymoog.

For those who know me (my "GalaxiesMerge" name here and there) I can say this: getting a synth is not about getting one and only one synth since none of them are the synth to rule all synths - rather - each synth is a contribution to one's on personal palette of sounds. Choose as you will. I did.

I'm a convert (see me comments on the forums as to why NOT get a Moog One). I was wrong. I'm happy to get the Moog One.

Cheers!

Re: Moog One - Not For Everybody

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:27 pm
by Iaamusic
Glad you got there!

I think your point about the Moog Sound is very true plus the ease of programming make it a great instrument. I have other synths but I lean to the One and my Model D whenI need synth parts. Mostly I suspect because they’re easy to quickly get a sound together and it somehow nearly always just “sounds right” in the mix. In the main I compose soundtrack music with many orchestral tracks and the One and Model D really cover most of my synth needs. My big thing I’d wish the good folk at Moog HQ would address in the next firmware update is the gain staging through the VCA, proper FX implementation (I do use the stereo Chorus occasionally) AND a filter/oscillator calibration routine. The prophet 6 is more developed in these areas, which I guess is why I tend to see these as priorities.

Enjoy making music with the One :D