Sub 37 Chromatic Scales for all 3 octaves

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beatnik-music
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:07 am

Sub 37 Chromatic Scales for all 3 octaves

Post by beatnik-music » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:15 am

Hi there,
I'm new to the moog world, yesterday I've received my first Sub 37. Great instrument with nice sound.
Anyway, I'm struggling with the following issue.
the 3 octaves are not chromatic. I verified with a tuner. going from low to high keys chromatically, the key for "F" results in a sounding F sharp, and F sharp remains F sharp. Coming to C# results in sounding D. In the middle octave F is F and F# = F#. But the A creates an A#. and in the the highest octave again the F creates an F# tone.
What setting did I miss?
I appreciate your help!
best regards,
Hannes

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LuLoop
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Location: Belgium
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Re: Sub 37 Chromatic Scales for all 3 octaves

Post by LuLoop » Sun Mar 27, 2016 8:37 am

Hi, This is what I found in the manual from the sub37

in the sub37 menu you find.

GLOBAL MENU PARAMETERS
NOTE CAL
When
NOTE CAL
is highlighted, pressing the
CURSOR
button takes you into the
NOTE
CALIBRATION
menu. Note calibration allows you to run a full-range calibration procedure,
which ensures the oscillators remain in tune for every playable note. During note calibration,
the Sub 37 “listens” to each note the oscillators produce and then adjusts them to the
expected pitch. The control voltage required to produce that pitch is recorded and saved in
the Sub 37’s internal memory.
NOTE:
Note calibration is not the same as the
FINE TUNE
knob on the front panel.
FINE
TUNE
adjusts the overall reference pitch for the synthesizer, allowing you to quickly bring the
synthesizer in tune with other instruments. The two operations do not depend on each other.
Because the oscillators in the Sub 37 are extremely stable, note calibration should rarely need
to be performed.
To run note calibration, choose the range of notes you wish to calibrate, and press
SAVE.
The standard note range is the full range of notes the Sub 37’s oscillators can produce (MIDI
notes 15 through 116). Because calibration is a slow process, if you only need to calibrate a few
notes, you can save time by choosing a smaller note range. Normally, however, you should
calibrate the full range.
START NOTE
This chooses the lowest note number to be calibrated. It is best left at 15 unless you
have a very specific reason for doing otherwise.
END NOTE
This chooses the highest note number to be calibrated. It is best left at 116 unless you
have a very specific reason for doing otherwise.

Regards Luloop
Sorry for my English..It is not my Mother language
Machines: Sub 37.
Systems: Win7 64 and Mac Pro 10.9.4 Logic pro X

beatnik-music
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:07 am

Re: Sub 37 Chromatic Scales for all 3 octaves

Post by beatnik-music » Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:35 am

Hello Luloop,
thanks for your reply. I did the note calibration procedure. Still no change.
I've realized when using the arp with one of the mentioned keys "out of tune", the arp will switch e.g. between F and F#. the arp will start with the F# then lower to F and repeating. so, somehow the internal calibration is fine. also in Duomode for the mentioned keys, both the F# and F will sound at the same time, while pushing only one key.

Strange behavior and not very convenient, as you can imagine.
Any further ideas?
Thanks!

beatnik-music
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:07 am

Re: Sub 37 Chromatic Scales for all 3 octaves

Post by beatnik-music » Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:34 pm

Hello again,

i've just used the Midi-OX to see what Midi signals are sent from the Moog. Maybe it helps troubleshooting. for the mentioned keys, the moog really generates two tones.

Hoping for a solution,
cheers!

here is the result:
00027BC7 1 2 90 29 72 1 F 2 Note On
00027BC7 1 2 90 2A 72 1 F# 2 Note On
00027C15 1 2 80 29 72 1 F 2 Note Off
00027C15 1 2 80 2A 72 1 F# 2 Note Off
00027EC4 1 2 90 31 75 1 C# 3 Note On
00027EC4 1 2 90 32 75 1 D 3 Note On
00027F31 1 2 80 31 75 1 C# 3 Note Off
00027F31 1 2 80 32 75 1 D 3 Note Off
000281C0 1 2 90 39 75 1 A 3 Note On
000281C0 1 2 90 3A 75 1 Bb 3 Note On
0002823D 1 2 80 39 75 1 A 3 Note Off
0002823D 1 2 80 3A 75 1 Bb 3 Note Off
00028D06 1 2 90 41 75 1 F 4 Note On
00028D06 1 2 90 42 75 1 F# 4 Note On
00028DB2 1 2 80 41 75 1 F 4 Note Off
00028DB2 1 2 80 42 75 1 F# 4 Note Off
00029EE1 1 2 90 30 7A 1 C 3 Note On
0002A019 1 2 80 30 7A 1 C 3 Note Off
Last edited by beatnik-music on Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

seanpark
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Re: Sub 37 Chromatic Scales for all 3 octaves

Post by seanpark » Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:15 pm

I'm not sure what to make of all that MIDI data...

But sometimes tuners can be fooled by synth patches with weird harmonic content. Have you tried checking tuning with a single OSC, simple waveform, and filter all the way open?

beatnik-music
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Re: Sub 37 Chromatic Scales for all 3 octaves

Post by beatnik-music » Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:37 pm

Hi Sean,
yes, I've used a simple waveform, no multidrive, filter open and attached the tuner. e.g. pushing the lowest octave F key, results in a generated F#. same happens with the other mentioned keys.
The Midi output was just to indicate, that by pushing the F key, the moog sends two signals, F and F#, and so on.
It seems that somehow the both signals are combined. Even more strange to me is the fact the a slow arp results in a arp of F and F#.

Weird. I'm not sure if it is a mechanical problem? But that constantly spready out of the keyboard?

If it is useful, I can take a short video to visualize the situation.
Thanks for your hints!

ObtuseMoose
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun May 24, 2015 7:36 pm

Re: Sub 37 Chromatic Scales for all 3 octaves

Post by ObtuseMoose » Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:20 pm

I'm going to suggest something that sounds unrelated, but it has resolved strange issues such as yours for myself and others. At worst it's harmless and at best it may fix your problem, so it's worth a try.

Try doing a Quick Erase of the sequencer. Just hold the BANK button while turning the PATTERN knob to the REC position. That erases all the sequencer data. (See page 20 in the manual for details.)

Back when my Sub37 was new I had some sort of weird behavior (I don't remember exactly what it was) that went away after doing the quick erase. A few other people on this forum have had similar experiences. It doesn't matter that the problem isn't with the sequencer, sometimes the Quick Erase seems to put things right in other areas.

--
Moose

HansH
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Re: Sub 37 Chromatic Scales for all 3 octaves

Post by HansH » Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:16 am

Are you sure you are using the right tuning table? If every F and D are off I would have a peek at this.

HansH
Cheers,
HansH

beatnik-music
Posts: 5
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Re: Sub 37 Chromatic Scales for all 3 octaves

Post by beatnik-music » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:08 am

Hello again,
First of all, thanks to all for your time trying to solve this issue.
I did the "quick erase" but the issue remains.

@HansH: The tuning scale is set to 12 T Equal Temp". Also, not all 3 octaves have the same problem.
Low octave: F = F#
Middle octave: Db = D and A = Bb
High octave: again F = F#

I've recorded a short video that has bad quality but should be sufficient to demonstrate the issue. It can be seen following this link https://www.dropbox.com/s/gmqp034e1dy3n8c/20160328_024327.mp4?dl=0

Happy Easter!

ObtuseMoose
Posts: 68
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Re: Sub 37 Chromatic Scales for all 3 octaves

Post by ObtuseMoose » Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:54 pm

beatnik-music wrote:I did the "quick erase" but the issue remains.


Oh, well. It was worth a shot.

beatnik-music wrote:I've recorded a short video that has bad quality but should be sufficient to demonstrate the issue.


That's just ... bizarre. I can't think of any normal settings or combinations of settings that would cause that behavior. I'd recommend getting in touch with Moog support at this point. Here's a link to a message in a different thread where Andy gives their contact info: http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25080#p153945

In any case, let us know what you find out when you eventually solve this.

--
Moose

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LuLoop
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Re: Sub 37 Chromatic Scales for all 3 octaves

Post by LuLoop » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:54 am

Hi,

What about recalibrating the potentiometers. They call it Pot_Calibration
That are some SysEx files. You can get them by Moog.
Run the SysEx files with midiox for Windows or SysEx Librarian for Mac.

Regards Luloop
Sorry for my English..It is not my Mother language
Machines: Sub 37.
Systems: Win7 64 and Mac Pro 10.9.4 Logic pro X

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Connoissaurus
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Re: Sub 37 Chromatic Scales for all 3 octaves

Post by Connoissaurus » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:03 pm

Just asking since, hey, you never know... is your tuner working correctly? :)
Moog Sub 37 | Win7 Pro 64-bit | Cubase 5.5.3 | MOTU Ultralite mk3

jsharpphoto
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Re: Sub 37 Chromatic Scales for all 3 octaves

Post by jsharpphoto » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:07 am

Out of curiosity, are you plugged directly into the wall or into a power strip? Can you try the synth in another outlet? I have a strange feeling it might be power related.
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TVPC
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Re: Sub 37 Chromatic Scales for all 3 octaves

Post by TVPC » Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:39 pm

Connoissaurus wrote:Just asking since, hey, you never know... is your tuner working correctly? :)


If you watch the dropbox video you can clearly see (hear) the problem. Def NOT the tuner lol....

What a strange issue, hope Moog gets back to you and helps you get to the bottom of it! Good luck!

Jmiller
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Re: Sub 37 Chromatic Scales for all 3 octaves

Post by Jmiller » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:53 am

Hi,
Was wondering if you have gotten this issue resolved? I just got my sub 37 brand new and it has the exact same behavior. Tried to recalibrate notes but had no effect. Also The unit came without any factory presets.
Any Ideas?

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