Sub37 - Have you had this much trouble with other synths?

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JazzMasta
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Sub37 - Have you had this much trouble with other synths?

Post by JazzMasta » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:54 am

These are some of the problems I've had so far:

- Distorted headphone output (like crazy-broken-distorted) (REPLACEMENT PART RECEIVED)
- Pitch goes nuts sometimes when playing with the pitchwheel (then you have to nudge the pitchwheel a few times to get it back in tune). It also drifts randomly sometimes after having used the pitchwheel. (NOW FIXED)
- Menus/buttons are kind of confusing and unintuitive (compared to other synths I own).
- For a synth with this much menus and functionality, the display is REALLY tiny.
- Patch naming is time consuming and very unintuitive. I mean, using a SUPER-sensitive knob to select letters? Come on! (NOW FIXED WITH THE SOFTWARE)
- Firmware felt very "beta" when I got it, much of the sequencer features were absent. (NOW FIXED)
- More noise from the VCA than my 35 year old SH-09.
- It's been 18 month since I got it and still no software/librarian/editor, which was promised at the release! This is just crazy.(NOW FIXED)

All in all, kind of feels it was released a bit too early. I cannot recall any other synth I ever got, new or old, that had so much bugs/weirdness to it.

If it weren't so incredibly gorgeous and had such powerful and wonderful bass sounds (when in correct pitch) I would probably sell it.

/A very disappointed yet strangely still very happy customer

Edit 5th April:
After messages from Amos, and what seemed like the longest six weeks ever, I finally got a response from the service department, and new parts are on the way (New pitchwheel unit and right side circuit board). Yay! This will hopefully fix the two first problems, which were the really nasty ones, and also prevent the filter pot problem some seem to have had.
So customer service is kinda slow, but also really helpful in the end.
I'll update again as soon as parts have arrived and they're installed and tested.
(Now, all I need is that librarian/editor so that I can rename all my patches without loosing my mind..)

Edit 18th April:
Received new parts parts on the 8th and have replaced the pitchwheel. It now seems to work properly(!) and I'm starting to enjoy the little beast again now that it stays in tune after pitch bending. I haven't replaced the right hand side panel board yet to fix the headphone jack (haven't had the time, so many nuts and knobs...). Also the filter pot is still working fine for me so there's no hurry to replace that board yet.

Edit 2, 18th April:
Librarian software finally released, so patch naming and organising hopefully won't be a problem anymore.
So, if the software librarian works as expected and the panel board replacement goes well, all my mayor concerns are fixed!
Last edited by JazzMasta on Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:32 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Numans2
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Re: Sub37 - Have you had this much trouble with other synths

Post by Numans2 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:15 pm

i had the distorted headphone output, sorry to say its the op amp and my curcit board had to be replaced, if your under warrentry i`d look at getting sorted!!

Amos
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Re: Sub37 - Have you had this much trouble with other synths

Post by Amos » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:19 pm

It sounds like your unit needs some work (I'd suggest having the pitch wheel replaced as well as your description indicates it has a legit problem as well) and I suspect that if this is done, your satisfaction level will be much closer to 100%. I'd recommend to go ahead and have it looked at under warranty. When it's right, I am confident it will feel much more satisfying to use.

As for the editor, yes it's something like a year behind schedule based on what we initially anticipated. I'm very sorry for that. It's quite close now though. Barring some calamity it will be out by the end of February.

If you need any help arranging for service feel free to contact me and I can help.

Kind regards,

Amos

seanpark
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Re: Sub37 - Have you had this much trouble with other synths

Post by seanpark » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:19 pm

I had a rather minor front panel issue which moog fixed for free under warranty. Mine is one of the first 50. NBD moog took care of it promptly.

It's a really deep synth. I'm happy with the design compromises which kept the frontpanel uncluttered. The 1.1 firmware added even more depth as will the upcoming editor and firmware 1.2 (just guessing at the FW number). Lots of extremely useful features are buried under unlabeled key combos but again this was a compromise to keep things tidy.

Subber37
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Re: Sub37 - Have you had this much trouble with other synths

Post by Subber37 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:48 am

Numans2 wrote:i had the distorted headphone output, sorry to say its the op amp and my curcit board had to be replaced, if your under warrentry i`d look at getting sorted!!


Do you mean the main board?

I have this problem also! it comes and goes in cycles and goes mega distorted even when not playing.

I agree it's frustrating because so far I've had to get a NEW keybed sent to me (I fitted it), and next week I've got to send my half board back for both the filter pot and volume pot issue. And hearing that the headphone output fault is a PCB and knowing the only PCB other than the control panel is the mainboard looks like I'm going to have to get that sent back too? Essentially other than casing I'll have replaced my synth with a whole new synth by the time I've finished :lol: :(

I can't really fault Moog's attitude and service and they seem to want to help but I have to agree that for a BRAND NEW SYNTH It's quite a lot of trouble with these small but important faults.

I can't really fault the rest of it though (the sound, the menus etc) yes the screen is small but at least it has one and you don't need it that often. I agree naming patches is a pain with the wheel but I dont bother naming I just put random chars in then name with the librarian when I back up (I have the beta - final version is coming very soon so long as no major last minute bugs found so I read so hang in there). It is a beautiful looking and sounding synth but it's clear that with things like the 'cheap' keybed and the flaky pots especially that corners were cut for cost reasons.

Have had no trouble with the pitch wheel either, maybe I'm just lucky, err... no I'm not lucky lets face it. :?

Looks like I'm gonna have to get in touch with moog again about this headphone thing now too!! I had assumed it was linked to my volume pot fault.. well more kind of hoped, but did suspect an op-amp (I wrote on here a while back about it).

FTR other than battery leak damaged old synths or dodgy pots (easy to replace) I've had less trouble in general with old vintage synths from the 80s (of which I've had at least 50 by now - buy .. repair ... sell if I don't like)


edit > I just remembered, I don't often use the headphone jack as I monitor with headphones through my system BUT when I do I recall hearing 'zipper noise' when using some of the pots (like digital interference) think it was the multidrive maybe the res... and mostly when not playing a sound you can hear them. Anyone else got that? not a deal breaker but just putting it out there.

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paramnesia
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Re: Sub37 - Have you had this much trouble with other synths

Post by paramnesia » Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:34 am

Subber37 wrote:Do you mean the main board?

And hearing that the headphone output fault is a PCB and knowing the only PCB other than the control panel is the mainboard looks like I'm going to have to get that sent back too?


headphone out is fed from the main board thru the 2 ribbon cables in the panels boards, so the static root cause is likely due to intermittent ribbon cable connections, not the main audio board
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paul_sub37
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Re: Sub37 - Have you had this much trouble with other synths

Post by paul_sub37 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:16 am

touch wood, I've had no problems with my sub 37.

The level of synthesis available in this unit is incredible and whilst the editor has been delayed, they were gracious enough to open up the beta version to anyone who wanted it and they have been very responsive to feedback from that.

The editor makes life a lot easier for things like patch naming, sequence editing and the like.
My Sub 37 Patches - Sub 37 + Mother 32 + UR-44 + OS X 10.11/Ableton Live/Logic Pro X + Push 2

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fwilleke
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Re: Sub37 - Have you had this much trouble with other synths

Post by fwilleke » Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:45 am

I've had no hardware problems with it, either.
Only some issues that made it feel rather "beta", as you said, but with the recent firmware versions it started to feel like a solid product. I love my Sub 37.
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fwilleke
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Re: Sub37 - Have you had this much trouble with other synths

Post by fwilleke » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:36 pm

Ha, now that's irony... 5 days after I posted that my Sub 37 does not make any problems at all, the infamous Filter Cutoff knob problem hits me... Serial number: SBT 02426
I'll send it away to get serviced in the new days.
Pity :-(

@Amos & Gil: This will also interrupt my participation in any beta activity. Sorry.
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Subber37
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Re: Sub37 - Have you had this much trouble with other synths

Post by Subber37 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:05 pm

paramnesia wrote:
Subber37 wrote:Do you mean the main board?

And hearing that the headphone output fault is a PCB and knowing the only PCB other than the control panel is the mainboard looks like I'm going to have to get that sent back too?


headphone out is fed from the main board thru the 2 ribbon cables in the panels boards, so the static root cause is likely due to intermittent ribbon cable connections, not the main audio board


Actually it was a bad op-amp chip and the head driver was confirmed to be on the right hand half control panel board (that the filter pot and other pots are on) is fitted to. I know because I dismantled it and returned the control board (as per my above post) due to the dodgy filter pot, they sent me a new board which I refitted (new metal shaft pot also has an extra locking nut for inside of casing for even more robustness) and this cured the filter pot (obviously) as well as the headphone output noise. This was confirmed with moog before I sent the board in in case I had to send the mainboard back too. It wasn't the cabling, I already checked that when I fitted my keybed previously :)

I asked to return only the board, I wasn't into sending the entire (mint) synth in the post to/from service centres for a 'simple' (if you know what you're doing) board swap. It's a fiddly and time consuming job getting all the knobs and nuts off though so I'd only recommend it to those with lots of time on their hands and prior experience of synth repair (which I have), for most normal users you'll just want to send it back well packed I guess.

Anyway - thanks Moog, it's all working 100% now - at last! Phew. The metal pot doesn't really feel that much worse than the plastic and I like that it flexes less too, definite improvement, and nice to know it's built to last (hopefully).

tomsynth
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Re: Sub37 - Have you had this much trouble with other synths

Post by tomsynth » Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:23 pm

The Sub37 filter cutoff knob is all messed up for me , so personally I have never had this much trouble. Filter cutoff knob lasted 1 1/2 years, maybe my expression pedal helped extend the life passed the warranty. I still love the thing and want to get it fixed but I feel like some keyed my new car or something.

dave808
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Re: Sub37 - Have you had this much trouble with other synths

Post by dave808 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Well my new Sub 37 arrived today with a little bit of damage, the top left hand corner of the wood side is cracked and looks like the corner of it may break off, and the polystyrene blocks the sub 37 sits in were all cracked and a bit busted. So it's gonna have to go back to the shop! Not happy at all... Plus the overall volume of the synth is a bit low. My Minitaur has more a powerful volume than the Sub 37!

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Re: Sub37 - Have you had this much trouble with other synths

Post by JonLukas » Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:04 pm

My filter knob also failed after almost 2 years of working properly. My serial is below 200, so it seems it was before the metal potentiometer revision. I'm having trouble getting through to tech support to get an RMA, but hopefully soon this will be on its way to being fixed (I purchased the extended warranty).
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goodweather
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Re: Sub37 - Have you had this much trouble with other synths

Post by goodweather » Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:19 am

Does anyone know the serial number from which the filter knob axis is in metal?
OR is it only replaced to metal when it falls apart (meaning it has to be within the warranty period)?
What if this happen after the warranty period?
Thx...

ObtuseMoose
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Re: Sub37 - Have you had this much trouble with other synths

Post by ObtuseMoose » Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:57 am

goodweather wrote:Does anyone know the serial number from which the filter knob axis is in metal?


I don't know the exact serial number for when the revised boards started appearing, but I think it was somewhere in the 5000 - 6000 range.

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