Sub37 PITCH AMT pot range

[urtzurd]

Hi,

Happy owner of a Sub 37 for a few months. I'm still exploring it's sound capabilities and enjoying with the many sweet spots of this synth. In the last days I was programming a sound to which I wanted to add a subtle vibrato effect. I found myself trying to do tiny adjustments with the PITCH AMT pot in the MOD1 section. Somehow it seems like the pot range is designed to cover a huge range of pitch depth, but in a linear way and it seems very difficult to adjust things near the center.

On some other pots, more specifically the ENV generator ones, the ranges are simply brilliant, with lots of sensitivity for the short times and less precision for longer times (but always good enough). I was wondering if other users feel the same about the PITCH AMT pots (and probably the FILTER AMT) in the mod section, and if it would be possible to change the range/behaviour in a firmware update.

Cheers!

[DrJustice]

I was about to post about this... I find it impossible to add subtle pitch modulation as the pot goes from nothing to "too much" immediately. It's the same on several Sub 37s I've tried.

I suggest that a mapping is introduced with the next firmware update for this knob. The tricky range immediately around the center detent could be a dead tiny zone, and then a more gradual effect for the first part of the travel(?)

[ObtuseMoose]

Remember that by default, MOD1 is routed through the modulation wheel, so you should be able to get very subtle pitch variations by setting the PITCH AMT to a slightly-off-center amount and adjusting the mod wheel slightly up from minimum. Of course, that assumes you don't need the mod wheel for other things.

--
Moose

[DrJustice]

I'm using aftertouch and modwheel for typical vibrato application, so that helps in those cases. However, even the smallest aftertouch vibrato I can dial in is as bit much for when I just want a little IYSWIM. If I just want a small amount of fixed modulation, it's simply too touchy IMO.

[urtzurd]

In the patch I was programming I used the mod wheel to control other parameter, but it's true that if you assign the modulation to it, you can dial in just a little vibrato. On the other side, I agree that with aftertouch it's very difficult to do subtle, as the range for the modulation is too big even with just a tiny off center amount. Vibrato controlled with aftertouch can very expressive, so it would be great to have finer control.

I'd say that the precision is there, as with the VST editor you can see that parameters are 14bits resolution and you can dial in much more subtle values than using the pot. Having to resort to using the editor in a knobby synth like this would be a pity... I bet it can be adjusted modifying the control surface firmware

[_DemonDan_]

I was programming a sound to which I wanted to add a subtle vibrato effect. I found myself trying to do tiny adjustments with the PITCH AMT pot in the MOD1 section. Somehow it seems like the pot range is designed to cover a huge range of pitch depth, but in a linear way and it seems very difficult to adjust things near the center.

Hi urtzurd,

One trick I use a lot is setting CNTRL4 AMT to +50%, and CTRL4 SRC to BREATH (CC#2).

Since I'm not sending the Sub 37 any CC#2 from an external MIDI controller, the total available depth of that MOD is now reduced by 50%, making it easier to find the "sweet spots" for the PITCH AMT, FILTER AMT, and MOD AMT knobs.

If you need even finer precision, try a CNTRL4 AMT of +90%. Now, the PITCH AMT, FILTER AMT, and MOD AMT knobs can only make subtle and very delicate modulations.

[urtzurd]

Hi _DemonDan_

Thanks a lot for the great tip/workaround. It works very well, also when combining it with aftertouch!
Not the most intuitive solution, but works as long as no breath controller messages are received. On the other side, this makes me want to experiment with my Yamaha S90ES controlling the Sub37, as I have a breath controller that doesn't get much use...

[hamtai]

Hi DemonDan. Your workaround is very interesting, I have to try it but in the meanwhile, doesn't it use one mod bus?

I still think the knob/pot shoulb be calibrated for subtle changes near the center.

[JazzMasta]

One trick I use a lot is setting CNTRL4 AMT to +50%, and CTRL4 SRC to BREATH (CC#2).
If you need even finer precision, try a CNTRL4 AMT of +90%. Now, the PITCH AMT, FILTER AMT, and MOD AMT knobs can only make subtle and very delicate modulations.

Yes, this is a workaround, but it's hardly elegant.
I would say vibrato is one of the most common effects that one would use an lfo for, and it shouldn't have to be this difficult/unintuitive/weird to add a hint of vibrato. ALL other synths I ever tried have managed to solve this in an easy manner.
It's like it was never tested by an actual synth player before its release.

[JazzMasta]

Hi,

Happy owner of a Sub 37 for a few months. I'm still exploring it's sound capabilities and enjoying with the many sweet spots of this synth. In the last days I was programming a sound to which I wanted to add a subtle vibrato effect. I found myself trying to do tiny adjustments with the PITCH AMT pot in the MOD1 section. Somehow it seems like the pot range is designed to cover a huge range of pitch depth, but in a linear way and it seems very difficult to adjust things near the center.

On some other pots, more specifically the ENV generator ones, the ranges are simply brilliant, with lots of sensitivity for the short times and less precision for longer times (but always good enough). I was wondering if other users feel the same about the PITCH AMT pots (and probably the FILTER AMT) in the mod section, and if it would be possible to change the range/behaviour in a firmware update.

Cheers!

+1

Pitch amount is WAY to sensitive around centre.

[_DemonDan_]

Your workaround is very interesting, I have to try it but in the meanwhile, doesn't it use one MOD bus?

No, not at all.

You simply add that CNTRL4 AMT value to the Mod you're trying to make less powerful.

[_DemonDan_]

Yes, this is a workaround, but it's hardly elegant.

I apologize for it not being elegant enough.

But really... it's just turning the value up on one parameter (that you probably aren't even using most of the time).

You could turn it up once and save that as your INIT PRESET, and then you'd never have to do it again.

[JazzMasta]

I think you misunderstood. It's the way this was constructed in the first place that's not elegant.

But really... going into a menu, changing some weird controller value to make the pitch-amt knob at all usable.
You are not to blame for this of course.

However that INIT PRESET thing sounds promising, thanks for the tip!

/M

I apologize for it not being elegant enough.

But really... it's just turning the value up on one parameter (that you probably aren't even using most of the time).

You could turn it up once and save that as your INIT PRESET, and then you'd never have to do it again.

[oli@sub37]

I was programming a sound to which I wanted to add a subtle vibrato effect. I found myself trying to do tiny adjustments with the PITCH AMT pot in the MOD1 section. Somehow it seems like the pot range is designed to cover a huge range of pitch depth, but in a linear way and it seems very difficult to adjust things near the center.

I have exactly the same problem. As I was trying to introduce very light detuning using LFO 2, I was already wishing for the Amount knobs to have a wider range where they allow fine adjustments. I wonder whether it would be possible to allow for user adjustable scaling, offering linear and several types of curves e.g. log10.

Or maybe to use the Fine Tune knob to fine adjust the last changed value?

Another idea would be to have the MOD value scaled before being applied to the destination...

One trick I use a lot is setting CNTRL4 AMT to +50%, and CTRL4 SRC to BREATH (CC#2).

Since I'm not sending the Sub 37 any CC#2 from an external MIDI controller, the total available depth of that MOD is now reduced by 50%, making it easier to find the "sweet spots" for the PITCH AMT, FILTER AMT, and MOD AMT knobs.

Thank you very much for that cool workaround! Not the perfect solution, but it helps to get to the goal! The main problem is if you want to use the same MOD to only lightly affect the pitch but have full impact on the filter or wave.

[taylor12k]

bumping this old thread just to add a +1. as a new owner of a Sub37 i discovered this immediately... the difficulty in dialing in subtle pitch vibrato with MOD 2. the CNTRL#4 trick works (i have mine set at 85%), but a global scale parameter or just a tweak in firmware might be a nicer solution.