Sub Phatty Clicky Envelopes and Noise

[Spanda]

Hi All

Not sure if this is normal behaviour?

Turn all OSC's and Noise to 0

Cutoff to full

Res, Overdrive to 0

EG and KB to 0

All Modulation to 0

I have Attack and Release at 0 and Decay and Sustain on Full to start testing

NOTE CALIBRATION, INITIALIZE GLOBAL PARAMETERS done just now.

Press any Key and get relatively loud clean noise (cleaner then Pink Noise Generator). If I turn up Release the Noise sustains but not as long as an OSC if I turn one up. If I turn OSC 1 to full and filter to 50hz the noise and OSC are about the same volume.

Also there is still sound from both OSC 1 and 2. Both follow Octave switching although only OSC 2 changes with Wave Select, OSC 1 stays the same with any wave setting.

There is an attack pop. This gets louder with OSC 1 Volume but not OSC 2, SUB or Noise> I need to turn Attack to just below 1 Second for the pop to stop (with any patch I have always had this issue)

Re installed V 298 2_0_6 again, no change..

Any help appreciated!

Cheers

Hugo

[Spanda]

Bump...

[bichuelo]

Well these are various symptoms.

On the noise, I do feel a tiny one but it doesn't sustain.

I can't listen to the OSCs as long as they are on zero value.

Regarding the envelopes, I understand this is the expected behavior.

[Spanda]

Well these are various symptoms.

On the noise, I do feel a tiny one but it doesn't sustain.

I can't listen to the OSCs as long as they are on zero value.

Regarding the envelopes, I understand this is the expected behavior.

Ok thanks very much for info! Much appreciated.

[krishrula]

Hey everyone

I have the same issues on my sub phatty. I don't think the first response gets the actual problem. I believe if both oscillators and sub and noise are on zero, we should not hear ANYTHING when keys are pressed, but what we are hearing is a bit of white noise. This is making it difficult to come up with clean bass patches. Does anyone know if this is on everyone's sub phatty (I.e, a noise floor that can't be removed) or if there may be some defect.

Thanks
Rishi

[Spanda]

Hi Rishi

Do you get OSC sound with all at 0 also or just white noise?

Does the white noise respond to envelopes too? Perhaps as its a digital envelope we only hear the analog noise when the envelopes open? Still mine is way too loud to be acceptable for a modern synth, my SH101 is a lot less noisy!!!

Cheers

Hugo

[acdbrn]

Same Issue here with a Moog Sub 37.

All OSC's/Modulation/RES/Multidrive are off , there is still white noise if I press Keys down.
The noise also reacts to AMP Envelope settings.

Made a Video to visualize the Problem: https://youtu.be/GiqoMTAtxVw

First 4 seconds of the Video show the normal Noise floor without doing anything, after that you can see me press Keys a few times.
I couldn't record Audio and Video together, but there are meters on ProQ and Ableton Spectrum that show the "Problem".


I would like to know if this is normal for an analog Synth or if the Unit is faulty and I need to RMA it.

[AdamScriv]

I'm going to go ahead and say I think this is probably normal operation. Mine behaves exactly as described in the original post. If you're putting an oscillator in to a 50 cycles filter though, you're basically filtering out the notes (except for truly subsonic stuff) then cranking a load of gain in to hear it despite it being filtered down, no?

Under what I'd consider to be challenging conditions, the SNR on my SP can drop to somewhere around 50 or 60dB (comparing signal with one oscillator on max, to envelope fully open noise). Obviously this ratio gets worse if you turn the oscillator level down. To my mind this is actually fairly reasonable for an analogue synth. Signal-to-envelope closed is more like 90dB+, and that's probably down in to the noise floor of the sound card I'm measuring it with anyway...!

Regarding the clicking envelopes, I think that's just how they are too. I guess it's because when you start a note the oscillator doesn't always start from a zero crossing like a sample would, it's just doing whatever it's doing, so unless you mask that by gliding the amp in & out, you'll hear the snap.

Hope at least some of that info is of use..?

..Adam

[Spanda]

I'm going to go ahead and say I think this is probably normal operation. Mine behaves exactly as described in the original post. If you're putting an oscillator in to a 50 cycles filter though, you're basically filtering out the notes (except for truly subsonic stuff) then cranking a load of gain in to hear it despite it being filtered down, no?

Filtering at max 4 pole or 24db per octave (can change filter curve with hidden parameters). Down at 50hz, 100hz is one octave up and would be 24db lower. Still some harmonics around 100hz would be audible and certainly with testing above there is an audible result. Also OSC pitch is relative to the filtered result as is wave shape.. Basically that's a fairly standard sub bass setup and is equal to the unwanted noise, not great..

Under what I'd consider to be challenging conditions, the SNR on my SP can drop to somewhere around 50 or 60dB (comparing signal with one oscillator on max, to envelope fully open noise). Obviously this ratio gets worse if you turn the oscillator level down. To my mind this is actually fairly reasonable for an analogue synth. Signal-to-envelope closed is more like 90dB+, and that's probably down in to the noise floor of the sound card I'm measuring it with anyway...!

Envelope open (generating sound which is what a synth is for) the noise floor is considerably higher the my SH101, the 101 was build more that 30 years ago so the Sub Phatty should definitely be a lot quieter with everything at 0. I was thinking I didn't note the setting for external audio which could be introducing noise even Hough there is nothing connected so will test that in the morning.

Regarding the clicking envelopes, I think that's just how they are too. I guess it's because when you start a note the oscillator doesn't always start from a zero crossing like a sample would, it's just doing whatever it's doing, so unless you mask that by gliding the amp in & out, you'll hear the snap.

A great feature of the Sub Phatty is OSC Phase lock and OSC sync so 1 triggers at the same phase every time and 2 resets when that happens. It's an envelope click to my knowledge, often a little release and the envelope doesn't quite finish before it starts again resulting in no attack click. Doesn't work here.. Perhaps it's the processing time of the digital envelope? Trade off for way more options which Amos has just given a solid answer on when more will be available. Thanks Amos Look forward to checking out new software!


Hope at least some of that info is of use..?

Thanks for sharing Adam, definitely helps to hear others experiences.

..Adam

[medwaystudios]

This is normal. I had my unit serviced here locally for something else but while it was in I asked the tech about it. He let me listen to a Slim Phatty and it had the same 'issue' concerning the noise.

I found raising the multidrive up a little actually reduces the noise for some reason.