Sub sound versus Sub 37 sound

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sp00ge
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Sub sound versus Sub 37 sound

Post by sp00ge » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:04 pm

Does anyone with hands on experience have a preference for the sound of the Sub over the Sub 37? I was surprised to hear someone say this, wondering if any others have a similar point of view, and if so why.

DUBMCT
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Re: Sub sound versus Sub 37 sound

Post by DUBMCT » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:45 pm

I have both, they both sound great. 37 can be more complex because of additional features, sub is great for simple live shows or to play on top of a latched arping 37. sub is easier to carry. sonically both are butter
MOOG: micro/sub/37/M32/DFAM/105m/MF delay/MF trem

sp00ge
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Re: Sub sound versus Sub 37 sound

Post by sp00ge » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:02 pm

typo
Last edited by sp00ge on Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sp00ge
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Re: Sub sound versus Sub 37 sound

Post by sp00ge » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:13 pm

DUBMCT wrote:I have both, they both sound great. 37 can be more complex because of additional features, sub is great for simple live shows or to play on top of a latched arping 37. sub is easier to carry. sonically both are butter
Do you feel that the Sub 37 can precisely mimic the Sub if the feedback knob on the Sub 37 is set to zero?

mmarsh100
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Re: Sub sound versus Sub 37 sound

Post by mmarsh100 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:30 pm

Yes, you can make them sound identical. I have both :)

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Bald Eagle
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Re: Sub sound versus Sub 37 sound

Post by Bald Eagle » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:52 pm

I also have both. The Sub 37 can sound identical to the Sub P. But not necessarily the other way around due to the extra functions in the 37.

sp00ge
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Re: Sub sound versus Sub 37 sound

Post by sp00ge » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:05 pm

Appreciate the replies.

I am quite happy with my Sub, and I have a number of sounds I would need to recreate if I upgrade to the Sub37. The extended feature set and knob per function setup will be nice to have, not to mention an increased range of tones with the feedback parameter.

Blackout
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Re: Sub sound versus Sub 37 sound

Post by Blackout » Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:13 am

this has been covered in exactly the same topic thread here:

http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23613

sp00ge
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Re: Sub sound versus Sub 37 sound

Post by sp00ge » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:22 am

Blackout wrote:this has been covered in exactly the same topic thread here:

http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23613
Thanks.

sp00ge
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Re: Sub sound versus Sub 37 sound

Post by sp00ge » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:51 am

Now all I have to ponder is if its better to spend the $600 difference on a Sub to Sub 37 upgrade, or pickup a Mother-32. :)

My primary dilemma is how much the Sub37 feedback circuit adds to overall tone of the Sub37. I have a fairly complex semi-modular environment (Voyager RME with I/O, MS20M, MoogerFoogers, some Eurorack etc.) so I can accomplish many (not all) of the modulation patches you could do with a Sub37 on a Sub via CV. Thus the primary advantages of the Sub37 for me are the feedback circuit and possibly the sequencer, and of course the knob per parameter interface.

The Mother-32 on the other hand...so many possibilities in my setup. The rack is also pretty sweet in terms of desktop real estate if you combine with Eurorack.

mmarsh100
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Re: Sub sound versus Sub 37 sound

Post by mmarsh100 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:50 pm

You can achieve feedback on the Sub Phatty by taking the phones OUT to the Ext IN then use the Ext Mix knob to add feedback. I do it all the time with my SubP :)

sp00ge
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Re: Sub sound versus Sub 37 sound

Post by sp00ge » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:09 pm

mmarsh100 wrote:You can achieve feedback on the Sub Phatty by taking the phones OUT to the Ext IN then use the Ext Mix knob to add feedback. I do it all the time with my SubP :)
Yes you can. But is the signal path identical to the internal feedback routing on the Sub37? Secondly the feedback circuit may have additional electronics that shape the sound so that the end result differs from a pure feedback loop.

Anyone with a Sub37 willing to compare external feedback patching via the headphone jack versus using the feedback knob to confirm?

Also there are grounding issues on the Voyager when attempting to setup a feedback loop via the headphone jack. You have to use a special Y-cable assembly via the audio insert jacks to be on the safe side. I assume the Sub Phatty would have a similar issue, but lacks the filter insert jacks.

mmarsh100
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Re: Sub sound versus Sub 37 sound

Post by mmarsh100 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:17 pm

Is the signal path identical? I don't know.
Can you get them to sound the same? Yes you can.
Do you need a special cable? No you do not, any mono 1/4" cable will do.
Are there ground problems this way? I haven't had any.

If all you're after is feedback, I'd say save your money.

stewdio
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Re: Sub sound versus Sub 37 sound

Post by stewdio » Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:46 pm

sp00ge wrote:
mmarsh100 wrote:You can achieve feedback on the Sub Phatty by taking the phones OUT to the Ext IN then use the Ext Mix knob to add feedback. I do it all the time with my SubP :)
Yes you can. But is the signal path identical to the internal feedback routing on the Sub37? Secondly the feedback circuit may have additional electronics that shape the sound so that the end result differs from a pure feedback loop.

Anyone with a Sub37 willing to compare external feedback patching via the headphone jack versus using the feedback knob to confirm?

Also there are grounding issues on the Voyager when attempting to setup a feedback loop via the headphone jack. You have to use a special Y-cable assembly via the audio insert jacks to be on the safe side. I assume the Sub Phatty would have a similar issue, but lacks the filter insert jacks.

I just tried with my 37 and the headphone jack did sound different - I really could not imagine spending the $600 or so difference just for that though - you could presumably take a y-cable off the main output probably and it would be the same as the signal flow in the 37... I sold my SubPhatty to buy a 37 for it's sequencer, second mod bus, duo mode, extra hands on control, larger patch storage... IMO, those are the functions to consider spending the money for if you need them, not wether or not the feedback is hard wired.
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paul_sub37
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Re: Sub sound versus Sub 37 sound

Post by paul_sub37 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:46 am

I've just tried feedback via headphones to audio in and it's definitely different - I can't get it to sound the same via the headphones as it does with the internal feedback.

With the headphones level above 6, it starts to oscillate in the audible range when the external in is increased. Not the same, but definitely an interesting addition to patch creation.

I've attached grabs from a soft-oscilloscope. The external are with headphone level set to 5 and external in set to 8 and then headphones set to 7 and external set to 7.
Attachments
sub37_feedback.gif
My Sub 37 Patches - Sub 37 + Mother 32 + UR-44 + OS X 10.11/Ableton Live/Logic Pro X + Push 2

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