Moog Noob & Sub 37 MIDI Question

[THX5]

I'm a 30+ year guitar player but new to the synth world (other than just very basic fiddling with various digital synths over the years). I've always been enamored with the sounds of analog synths and Moog in particular. However, I've never really played with anything where I'm using a keyboard as a MIDI controller.

I've finally decided to take the plunge into the world of analog synths and after a lot of research, am about to buy a Sub 37. I fully understand the differences between monophonic, paraphonic, and polyphonic synths.

My very basic, simple, newb, noob, etc question is this: If I have a software synth running on a PC, and I'm using the Sub 37's MIDI OUT through USB and using the Sub 37's keyboard as a MIDI controller to control the software synth on the PC, can the Sub 37 control a software polyphonic synth?

What I'm trying to do is have the best of both worlds. 90% of the time I intend to use the Sub 37 as a paraphonic analog synth. However, 10% of the time, I'd like to be able to have a full polyphonic synth and would like to be able to use the Sub 37's keyboard for the software polyphonic synth. Will this work?

Even if the Sub 37 will pass multiple MIDI triggers simultaneously (for polyphonic), will there be too much latency going through Windows 7's USB / AISO, etc drivers to make playing the software synth over MIDI in real time not practical?

Finally, does anyone have any recommendations on where to purchase a new Sub 37 (online) to get the best price and service (I live in the USA).

Sorry for so many incredibly basic questions for my first post. I'm really psyched about getting into the world of analog synths!

Many thanks in advance for your help!

[paul_sub37]

I got my sub37 yesterday - one of the things that attracted me to it was the ability to act as a controller keyboard for soft-synths in my DAW, and it works great with full polyphonic control over the software.

This means I can sell off my old controller keyboard and have the sub37 pulling double duty. I use mine with Ableton Live on a Mac via USB and all seems to be connecting nicely in terms of midi out from the sub37 to Live, midi out from the DAW controlling the sub37, and routing audio from the sub37 to an audio channel (I'm finding that using an oscilloscope plugin is proving very useful).

When using it as a controller I'm not bothering to disable internal sounds, they're just not routed anywhere - but it seems easy enough to have keys etc sent only to midi out:

- - -

From Page 45 of the user manual:

LOCAL CONTROL (GLOBAL MENU 1.5)

Highlight LOCAL CONTROL >> and press the CURSOR button to enter the LOCAL CONTROL sub menu.
Sometimes it’s useful to disable the keyboard and/or other physical controllers on the Sub 37 when using it as a MIDI controller or when recording tracks into a DAW.

ALL
When ON, all of the Sub 37 controls, features, and functions send MIDI data to the Sub 37
as well as the specified MIDI OUTs. When OFF, no physical controls, features, or functions have any impact on the Sub 37, but all MIDI data is still transmitted to the specified MIDI outputs.

KEYS
When ON, the Sub 37 keyboard sends MIDI data both to the internal sound engine as well as
the specified MIDI OUTs. When OFF, the keyboard data is not transmitted internally meaning it has no effect on the Sub 37, but keyboard MIDI data is still transmitted to the specified MIDI outputs.

WHEELS
When ON, the Sub 37 PITCH bend and MODULATION wheels send MIDI data both to the internal sound engine as well as the specified MIDI OUTs. When OFF, the pitch bend and modulation data is not transmitted internally meaning it has no effect on the Sub 37, but their MIDI data is still transmitted to the specified MIDI outputs.

PANEL
When ON, all of the Sub 37 knobs and buttons send MIDI data to the Sub 37 as well as the specified MIDI OUTs. When OFF, no physical knobs or panel buttons have any impact on the Sub 37, but their MIDI data is still transmitted to the specified MIDI outputs.

[Bald Eagle]

The Sub 37 does support polyphonic midi output. I have used it via MIDI DIN and I don't see any reason why it won't also work over USB. Latency should not be an issue but that depends on the drivers and other factors as well.

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[THX5]

Thanks for the replies! Sounds like the Sub 37 will do exactly what I'm looking for. Time to break out the credit card

[paul_sub37]

My old controller keyboard didn't do aftertouch, so it's really nice to open up the soft-synths with that from the sub37.

[MoogProg]

I re-configured recently and ended up with the Sub37 as master controller, and it works very well. Aftertouch is great to have, and my OTB ROMpler workstation supports that. Best of the best, is that I can now program the Slim Phatty directly from the Sub37 front panel. In addition, I can use the Sub37 SEQ/ARP to play outboard instruments, and am successfully recording those sequences as MIDI output to another OTB sequencer, including Filter sweeps and other knob moves. Also can get the Sub37 playing an incomming part from the OTB sequencer part, and still use the Sub37 keyboard to play other synths, but using the ARP/SEQ while I did this caused some jittery-ness.

[stiiiiiiive]

Welcome to the forum, THX5

Not only the Sub 37 can control soft synths, it can make paraphonic synths with them. Take the output of your soft synth into the audio input of the S37, mixdown the oscillators, mix up the audio in section, and enjoy the filter and its envelope!

[sjurick]

I'm confused. How is it that I plug my MIDI OUT on my Sub 37 to the MIDI IN on my Minitaur (DIN Cable no USB), and my S37 volume and other knobs still affect the Minitaur??? I've gone into Global on the S37 and turned off all Local values but doesn't seem to affect it. I've even unplugged by TS audio cable from my S37 but I can still tweak Cutoff on S37 and the Minitaur is affected.

Is there a way to make the S37 a dumb controller or do I do that my just not touching anything on the S37 and tweak on the outboard gear's knobs? (Yes I said tweak knobs)

Thanks!

[ObtuseMoose]

If I understand correctly, you want the keys from the Sub37 to play on the Minitaur, but don't want the knobs on the Sub37 to affect the Minitaur.

You've turned off local control in the Sub37's GLOBAL menu. That's not what you need (as you've discovered ). Local control determines whether keys, knobs, wheels, etc. on the the Sub37 affect the Sub37 itself. You would turn off local control if you wanted to control the Sub37's sound from some external controller, like a DAW or other MIDI keyboard.

To send keys to your Minitaur but not knob messages, you need to go into the MIDI menu on the Sub37 and set PANEL to OFF on the OUT FILTERS page.

1. Press the MIDI button on the front panel. That brings up the MIDI MENU.
2. Press the down arrow button until you highlight the OUT FILTERS item (it's on the 3rd "page").
3. Press the CURSOR button to enter the OUT FILTERS menu.
4. Press the down arrow button until the PANEL item is highlighted.
5. Use the FINE TUNE knob to set the PANEL value to OFF. (You can also set the WHEELS to OFF if you don't want the mod & pitch wheels to affect the Minitaur. Or leave them ON if you do.)
6. Press the PRESET or PANEL button to exit the MIDI MENU.

Now pressing keys on your Sub37 should make the Minitaur play, but tweaking knobs on the Sub37 shouldn't affect the Minitaur. (If you want both the Sub37 and Minitaur to play at the same time, you'll need to turn local control back on on the Sub37.)

Hope this helps.

--
Moose

[sjurick]

Thanks Moose! This is exactly what I was looking for!