Sub 37 Filter Cutoff: First Batch vs. Revised Batch

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FrankR
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Re: Sub 37 Filter Cutoff: First Batch vs. Revised Batch

Post by FrankR » Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:58 am

I have the serial# 0647x, manufactured 05/15 and it exhibits a plastic shaft under the knob.

Isn't strange that I have a higher serial than some of the 06/15 manufactured ones?

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MRNUTTY
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Re: Sub 37 Filter Cutoff: First Batch vs. Revised Batch

Post by MRNUTTY » Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:20 pm

Just for reference, here's a link to the page offering the upgrades for Prophet 08 and Evolver. http://store.davesmithinstruments.com/products.php?cat=13 The relevant kit for a DYI'er is the one priced at $175. This kit included two 8x10 inch PCB's. The final cost of a Moog upgrade will depend on the size of the PCB, the number of layers, and the number and type of components on it. Replacing the PCB's in the Prophet 08 was easy enough for anyone to do.
VoyagerEB, Minitaur, LittlePhattyII, 4xSlimPhatty, Sub37, MF[2x101,2x102,103,104M,105,105B,105M,2x107,108M], 3xCP251, XV351, MP201;
Virus C; SuperNova; Micro-Q, MicrowaveXT; Kronos; Eventide H3000, GTR4000, H8000FW, 5xH9; 2xLexicon300L; 2xKSP8, K2500; EX5

ChiLam
Posts: 174
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Re: Sub 37 Filter Cutoff: First Batch vs. Revised Batch

Post by ChiLam » Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:03 pm

Hi, it cost me about 800 NOK incl tax and shipping to Norway. I guess it would roughly equate to 100 US Dollars at the moment - the kroner is particularly weak at the moment though.

Blackout
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Re: Sub 37 Filter Cutoff: First Batch vs. Revised Batch

Post by Blackout » Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:55 pm

MRNUTTY wrote:Just for reference, here's a link to the page offering the upgrades for Prophet 08 and Evolver. http://store.davesmithinstruments.com/products.php?cat=13 The relevant kit for a DYI'er is the one priced at $175. This kit included two 8x10 inch PCB's. The final cost of a Moog upgrade will depend on the size of the PCB, the number of layers, and the number and type of components on it. Replacing the PCB's in the Prophet 08 was easy enough for anyone to do.


hi MRNUTTY....i thought this situation you mention was a bit different...for the Prophet 08, people just preferred the upgraded pots over the rotary encoders. For the Sub37 this is a situation where the pot has actually failed, and will continue to fail (as it has done so again for at least one user here) unless the revised PCB is used. or am i missing something?

Gametime
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Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:16 pm

Re: Sub 37 Filter Cutoff: First Batch vs. Revised Batch

Post by Gametime » Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:32 pm

I realy like 2 see a lifetime warranty for the plastic knob units.
We pay for metal not for plastic thats the reason why we buy a moog remember ?

I think moog need 2 replace all units with the plastic knobs , its not fair the synths with the plastic knobs nobody wants to buy.

I expect that moog resolve this problem , and replace all units or a lifetime warranty otherwise i send my unit in for repair and i will check if my knob is metal or plastic.

Thanks

Toom
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:38 pm

Re: Sub 37 Filter Cutoff: First Batch vs. Revised Batch

Post by Toom » Sun Aug 02, 2015 2:38 am

I hope I won't have to pre-order this revised board and wait 6 months for it to come out. ;)

But in all honesty, dibs on one of these revised boards, I'd like to get back to playing my synth. Where's the checkout?

GregVDS
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Re: Sub 37 Filter Cutoff: First Batch vs. Revised Batch

Post by GregVDS » Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:43 am

If Moog is selling the revised pcb with metal shaft pot, I'd gladly buy one just in case.

Moog has a few options/upgraded for their instruments on their website, so that wouldn't be impossible for them to just sell the revised pcb as a safety/replacement options for Sub37 owner.

I vote for the optional pcb availability to cover everyone and to avoid strangling Moog.

GregVDS
Posts: 157
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Re: Sub 37 Filter Cutoff: First Batch vs. Revised Batch

Post by GregVDS » Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:04 am

@ Everyone here,

As the faulty filter plastic pot (do we call it the FFPP :-)?) seems to emerge as a 'common' (1% of occurrence according to Moog) problem, can I ask you all to record (or update if you did already) your Sub37 in the SN Sub37 thread, so we can have a trace of this.

Please do submit following this pattern:

SN: SBT 0XXXX
Build Date: XX/201X
Purchase Date: XX/201X
Owner: Avatar
Location: XXXX (where the Sub37 lives, obviously not mandatory, but fun to discover every place where our instrument is played)
Purchased at: Shop where you bought it, to trace effects of transport/destination.
History: Most important part, in which you describe the state of the instrument, its functionality. No need to nitpic about every tiny defects in the wood, the obvious. Try to keep it in one line too please. Of course, repair, FFPP, stuff like that go here.

And please, do submit even you have no problem, so we have the most statistical view of the Sub37 production. We don't want to over-represent defects/problems, nor under-represent them.

Many thanks to everyone for your participation, it will help us all.

Greg

Gametime
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Re: Sub 37 Filter Cutoff: First Batch vs. Revised Batch

Post by Gametime » Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:03 am

I dont know why you guys agree with buying another board ? We pay already enough so for me its very simpel if moog dont give a lifetime warranty for the plastic knobs i will send my unit to moog for the replacement and i dont pay any dollar , euro , pound.

I understand moog is a small company but you can sell 1 half of your customers another moog with plastic parts.

So please moog do something about , dont let your customers down !

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madhermit
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Re: Sub 37 Filter Cutoff: First Batch vs. Revised Batch

Post by madhermit » Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:43 am

Gametime wrote:I understand moog is a small company but you can sell 1 half of your customers another moog with plastic parts.


I don't understand what you mean by this. 60 bad pots will lose half their business?
J. Dickinson
{MF-104m, Sub37}

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MRNUTTY
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Re: Sub 37 Filter Cutoff: First Batch vs. Revised Batch

Post by MRNUTTY » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:11 am

@blackout, the encoders were definitely failing. The remedy was lots of dioxit. The link puts a weird spin on it, but they switched to pots because the encoders were giving everyone too much trouble. I had an encoder P08, tried dioxin, didn't work, and the bought the boards. I eventually sold it. But it was in good condition after the board swap. I still have the encoder boards!

@GregVDS, do you want us to go back an annotate this new information in our original posting, or add a new post with the new info?

@Gametime, insisting on a 'lifetime warranty' for equipment like this from a company of Moog's size is unreasonable. Especially the filter knob - I expect some folks wail on this like no other knob on the instrument! While the implicated device fell short in some instances, by Moog's own admission the intent was to give you an instrument that would last a lifetime. Don't hold their feet to the fire for something they didn't agree to when you purchased it. If want to peruse said warranty here is a link to it http://www.moogmusic.com/support/general-moog-questions/#what-moogs-standard-warranty
VoyagerEB, Minitaur, LittlePhattyII, 4xSlimPhatty, Sub37, MF[2x101,2x102,103,104M,105,105B,105M,2x107,108M], 3xCP251, XV351, MP201;
Virus C; SuperNova; Micro-Q, MicrowaveXT; Kronos; Eventide H3000, GTR4000, H8000FW, 5xH9; 2xLexicon300L; 2xKSP8, K2500; EX5

Blackout
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Re: Sub 37 Filter Cutoff: First Batch vs. Revised Batch

Post by Blackout » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:12 am

i know someone who just ordered a Sub37, they have read this thread and told me they obviously dont want the FFPP version. They are going to refuse to accept the delivery and send the sealed Moog box back when it arrives if the serial number on the box is below 5800 and ask for another one to be sent....

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MRNUTTY
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Re: Sub 37 Filter Cutoff: First Batch vs. Revised Batch

Post by MRNUTTY » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:40 am

No offense, but that's just irrational. All the other pots on the instrument are plastic, same as many other synths built for many, many years. You either put your faith in Moog that the particular device they used for the filter control had a latent fault in some small population of devices they used (often refered to as a date code issue), or don't buy any modern synths. I have a plastic filter pot, if it breaks I'll get it fixed. If it lasts for a year, I feel as confident in that device as any other one in my studio.
VoyagerEB, Minitaur, LittlePhattyII, 4xSlimPhatty, Sub37, MF[2x101,2x102,103,104M,105,105B,105M,2x107,108M], 3xCP251, XV351, MP201;
Virus C; SuperNova; Micro-Q, MicrowaveXT; Kronos; Eventide H3000, GTR4000, H8000FW, 5xH9; 2xLexicon300L; 2xKSP8, K2500; EX5

Gametime
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Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:16 pm

Re: Sub 37 Filter Cutoff: First Batch vs. Revised Batch

Post by Gametime » Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:37 pm

I do think they need to give a lifetime warranty from unit 0 till 5400 ( only for the filter knob)

What about reselling nobody wants to buy unit 1 until 5400 because they know about the different board.
So are instrument ( unit 1 until 5400 ) lost value ! What about that ?

Please moog answer to this because i feel bad about this :(

Toom
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:38 pm

Re: Sub 37 Filter Cutoff: First Batch vs. Revised Batch

Post by Toom » Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:06 pm

Gametime wrote:I do think they need to give a lifetime warranty from unit 0 till 5400 ( only for the filter knob)

What about reselling nobody wants to buy unit 1 until 5400 because they know about the different board.
So are instrument ( unit 1 until 5400 ) lost value ! What about that ?

Please moog answer to this because i feel bad about this :(


1) I agree with the lifetime warranty of the faulty pots, but keep in mind that if the filter cutoff pot works, it is not faulty. Everyone should rest assured that if their cutoff pot works, there's nothing to worry about.

2) MOOG should offer, for a fair price (sounds like it's around $100USD), a revised board for any Sub 37 owner that chooses to replace their wobbly/faulty filter cutoff pot. My warranty expired July 31 and I still haven't heard from Andy about replacing my faulty pot (for the 2nd time). Does anyone know if there's anyone else I can contact via e-mail about this problem?

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