Should I keep only the Sub37?

[andreasroman]

Friends at the forum,

I'm considering a gear purge. As in selling most of my gear and keeping only the Octatrack and the Analog Rytm.

And, of course, my Sub37.

That, however, would be my only synth. I'm thinking that with the power of the Octatrack's way of building tracks and mangling audio through sampling, and the Analog Rytm's analog sample playback engine and groovy vibe, I should be covered.

I'd be using the Sub37 as a live instrument and as my main source for samples when it comes to bass, leads, fx - basically anything I can't or won't do with the Octa or the Rytm.

However, the Sub37 has a very distinct sound. It takes up a lot of room and it makes itself known, goddamit.

In your experience, how versatile is the Moog outside of its raw sonic profile as a bass monster, a lead crusher and a sequence beast? Can it brood in the background, whisper from the corner, just be a subtle part of something much larger?

For those more abstract sounds, mellow pads, feather-light atmospheric drones and so on ... can the Moog do this too?

Or would I get an audioscape that's just too narrow, although great of course?

I should add that my reason for trimming my rig is I don't have space for much gear. So keeping stuff is not an option. It's just a matter of what I'll keep, and I've never played an instrument as beautiful as the Sub37. So I want to make this work.

For reference, here's a track of mine on Soundcloud, to give you an idea of what kind of music I'm making. I'm not promoting myself, I really do think listening to this if only for half a minute or so, is relevant for the discussion, since your choice of gear has a lot to do with kind of music you wanna make.
https://soundcloud.com/circuitghost/ana ... o-to-sleep

Thanks for your time.

[stiiiiiiive]

I really do think listening to this if only for half a minute or so, is relevant for the discussion, since your choice of gear has a lot to do with kind of music you wanna make.

Let me give another point of view: the music you make has a lot to do with the gear you love playing on
Both are true, it all comes down to you. Anyways.

I've used a MachineDrum UW for... 8 years now, and it was sometimes my rig central piece, meaning everything else was passing through it for live sampling and arrangement: vocals, guitar + amp sim, synth + looper.
I think the Elektron instruments are apropriate for processing other instruments, thus I think that if you want your Sub37 to sound lighter, more distant, skinnier etc you can try to use the Octatrack's filters and FX, on the direct in as well as on the recorded loops.
At least, it's worth the try.

What is the gear you're thinking of parting with? Maybe that's the question, here: would you miss it? If so, would you be able to reproduce their character with te Moog + Elektron processing?

Most important/simple advice to me: while you still have the choice, try to run sessions with you hypothetical future rig

[andreasroman]

Thanks, solid and good advise.

So what I'd trade would be a Tempest, a Microbrute, a Tanzbaer and an Electribe 2. These are sonically all very different and offer quite a wide palette, but to tell you the truth, the only gear I'd really miss out of these, is the Tempest. That's truly a unique piece of something and it has a very specific sound that the Moog can't replicate. But the same goes the other way around, so they're just very different.

So I guess when it comes down to it, it's between the Tempest and the Moog. I can't keep both for space and financial reasons and I know the Tempest can do the duty, but I'd rather let the Moog take its place in line. I use the Tempest as a source for sounds and sequences, not primarily for its multiple track options, so the Moog's paraphonic limitations compared to the Tempest isn't an issue here.

But I guess I'll just have to use the Moog like I've used the Tempest for awhile, and then decide. The Tempest can quite easily slide into a mix if you play it right. The Moog, in my experience, takes up a lot of respect in the room and demands to be tamed, to play well in a crowded mix.

It all sounds simple, now that I read your answer and think about it. But that's true of all good advise, which is why they're rare to find.

[stiiiiiiive]

I'm glad I could help a bit


I take the opportunity here to aks a similar question.
I have a Little Phatty with CV out and a Voyager Old School. I often play on a friend's Sub Phatty, which I like less that my LP, for sonic reason mainly.
When the Sub 37 came out, I was soooooo excited by the possibilities, but the fact the sonic engine was the SubPhatty's one calmed me down a bit. I would love to beneficiate of the duophony stuff, play alternatively one or two notes (I mainly play keyboard, like in "I'm in rock bands", and don't sequence...). I love having all the buttons at hands, even if I find the LP's collar knobs to be very firendly, with those big illuminated push buttons, not a problem for me. I love the extensibility of the Voyager, got a VX too. Same story for the LP's CV out: I barely use them, eventually.
Fact is I can't play the Voyager out because it's too heavy to be moved as often as I rehearse. I can hardly imagine parting with it, but well.

So lately, I though: what if I replaced the LP and the VOS by a Sub37 that would offer me the full knobbed panel, the memories (which I use with bands), the transportability and some square inches in the room?

Thoughs, guys?...

[MoogProg]

...keeping only the Octatrack and the Analog Rytm...

I really do think listening to this if only for half a minute or so, is relevant for the discussion, since your choice of gear has a lot to do with kind of music you wanna make.
https://soundcloud.com/circuitghost/ana ... o-to-sleep

^Really cool! I think you could do a lot with that Power Trio of gear. Would you miss having a polyphonic sound-source? I certainly would, but you might not.

(I mainly play keyboard, like in "I'm in rock bands", and don't sequence...)

Hey, I resemble that description. For me the Sub37 is a 'dream synth'. Duophony works really well in a band setting (huge sounding), especially using a foot-pedal on Filter. Aftertouch is great for freeing up the left hand to another 'board. The Sub37 really excels at 'performance sounds' that react to playing dynamics. It is a lively beast, so maybe use a volume pedal, too!

Currently I'm playing at home (sans band while I relocate) and even in this sequencing environment, the Sub37 usually waits for the sequence to come together, waits for me to play it over the 'canned' tracks.

[andreasroman]

So lately, I though: what if I replaced the LP and the VOS by a Sub37 that would offer me the full knobbed panel, the memories (which I use with bands), the transportability and some square inches in the room?

Thoughs, guys?...

I'm not familiar enough with these members of the Moog family to return the favour and give solid advise on the matter.

However, a friend of mine sold his Voyager since he felt the Sub did all that, and then some. And the local dealer says he's had customers who's made the same trade.

So you're not alone in thinking along these lines, and you wouldn't be the first to pull the trigger if you went ahead.

[andreasroman]

...keeping only the Octatrack and the Analog Rytm...

I really do think listening to this if only for half a minute or so, is relevant for the discussion, since your choice of gear has a lot to do with kind of music you wanna make.
https://soundcloud.com/circuitghost/ana ... o-to-sleep

^Really cool! I think you could do a lot with that Power Trio of gear. Would you miss having a polyphonic sound-source? I certainly would, but you might not.

Thanks. Appreciate it So the thing is, that track's prominent parta are made with sequences I created in the Tempest and sampled through the Octatrack and then deployed in the Analog Rytm. The bass, however, is of course the Moog, both the discreet one and the open - close layer with the filter. And quite honestly, the track was okay up until I added the Moog sound, at which point it came alive and everything just glued together.

But yeah, the bouncy sequences are all Tempest, sampled and mangled in the Octatrack and then played and processed in the Rytm.

The Tempest has a very specific sound based partly on its many modulation options, making its voices more organic than many other synths I've played. In comparisons, the Sub37 is clean and while raw, also more controlled. The Tempest is the wild one.

So it's this contest between the two that I'm right in the middle of. I just can't keep'em both. This track's character comes primarily with the Tempest. But I'm thinking, perhaps the same workflow but with the Moog as the primary source, might've yielded something even cooler.

So this is what I'll find out by simply giving it a go, I suppose.

[ImNotDedYet]

I'd want some polyphony personally, especially for lighter, more airy pads.

And if you're looking to get rid of the Tanzbar, let me know.

[DaveBee]

For those more abstract sounds, mellow pads, feather-light atmospheric drones and so on ... can the Moog do this too?

Or would I get an audioscape that's just too narrow, although great of course?

I don't have any Elektron gear so can't comment on how far that will get you. My own opinion is as great as the Sub37 is for the things it can do I feel no matter how it's setup it still sounds like a Moog (which is great) ... I would want another synth for some of the other sounds you want like pads etc. I am only recording at home and have a Fantom XR for more chord based and different sounding samples and still desire to have an analog or hybrid poly synth capable of different sounds to complement the Sub37. And maybe an Analog Rytm. But I doubt very much it would end there

[andreasroman]

For those more abstract sounds, mellow pads, feather-light atmospheric drones and so on ... can the Moog do this too?

Or would I get an audioscape that's just too narrow, although great of course?

I don't have any Elektron gear so can't comment on how far that will get you. My own opinion is as great as the Sub37 is for the things it can do I feel no matter how it's setup it still sounds like a Moog (which is great) ... I would want another synth for some of the other sounds you want like pads etc. I am only recording at home and have a Fantom XR for more chord based and different sounding samples and still desire to have an analog or hybrid poly synth capable of different sounds to complement the Sub37. And maybe an Analog Rytm. But I doubt very much it would end there

It never does, does it?

I have a Minitaur also that I'd sell if I got rid of all my other stuff. But perhaps the Minitaur and the Tempest would be enough to get the Moog fix and the variety that the Tempest offers. It does have polyphony, so you can play it like a six voice synth as well. Quite flexible.

[andreasroman]

I'd want some polyphony personally, especially for lighter, more airy pads.

And if you're looking to get rid of the Tanzbar, let me know.

Well, it's on sale for the moment but I live in Sweden, so perhaps it's more of a hassle than what it's worth.

It's a great instrument, though. The very definition of a one trick pony, but what a trick it plays.

[Dapifer]

The list you described is exactly my setup, S37, Rytm, OT. The only other thing I have kept around (apart from pedals/fx is the Microbrute, I do contemplate selling it though as I don't use it much and in a way it has a similar character to the Sub37. It does have a uniqueness though and it's the only piece of gear I have with CV outs to play that way with my fx boxes (even if I rarely do) so I'm reluctant to sell it as its reasonably cheap anyway. If I need the money (which I may do in a few months) it'll be the one to go though.

[Dapifer]

...keeping only the Octatrack and the Analog Rytm...

But yeah, the bouncy sequences are all Tempest, sampled and mangled in the Octatrack and then played and processed in the Rytm.

Can you eloborate on this? I love the Rytms filters and fx much more than the OTs but what way do you manage samples of sequences in the Rytm? I've only ever used one shots in it. How do you sync the sequences?

[andreasroman]

...keeping only the Octatrack and the Analog Rytm...

But yeah, the bouncy sequences are all Tempest, sampled and mangled in the Octatrack and then played and processed in the Rytm.

Can you eloborate on this? I love the Rytms filters and fx much more than the OTs but what way do you manage samples of sequences in the Rytm? I've only ever used one shots in it. How do you sync the sequences?

It's all very painful but it's worth it.

So I composed the meat of this track in the Tempest. I sampled the sequences as four bar loops, with a few variations to get as close to the organic modulation sound as possible.

Then, I imported them into the Rytm and made sure the track was built inside the Rytm in the same BPM as the sampled loops. The Rytm can fire away loops of any kind, it just can't time stretch.

So it was a matter of knowing the bpm and then not change that.

Which I did, once.

And then, I had to resample all the loops to match the new bpm.

Very painful.

But - worth it. Because when the Rytm glues everything together with the compressor and dist, the filters and the amps, the fx and all, it sounds outstanding. So yes, it's tedious, but once it's all in there and you've locked down the big parameters, it's quite easy to fire away loops and one shots together, and just work them like there's no difference really.

[Dapifer]

Makes sense. Do you use Sub 37 samples in the AR too? Or do you feel it's neccessary with that?