Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

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franklinstower
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Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by franklinstower » Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:54 pm

artQ wrote:any news about some lighter tension springs for the SUB37 ?


Mine were stiff when I got them but they have broken in nicely so there is no need now.

benbravo
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Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by benbravo » Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:35 pm

I could very easily get a new set of lighter springs from the local Moog technicians here in Switzerland and the keyboard already feels a lot more natural. I could change the springs myself, no big deal if you are careful. The springs are the same for black and white keys indeed, but are attached differently to the key (black ones a bit less stretched). I tried changing only the black keys for the lighter gauge springs, but found that changing all of them gave a more regular and natural feel. It is unfortunately not yet comparable to the smooth touch of the voyager keybed, but it does improve the awkward stiff feel I had before.

I have to say, after some experiences of the kind, that direct contact with local technicians was far more reliable than writing to moogmusic.com. They seem to be somewhat overwhelmed with e-mails at times...

seanpark
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Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by seanpark » Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:11 pm

Can Subber37 or anyone else suggest a source for a replacement keybed in the US?

I have tried contacting moog but no reaponse thusfar.

Thanks.

AndyQ
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Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by AndyQ » Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:53 pm

Mike37 wrote: ....The keyboard action is too stiff, and triggers too deep..


I'm no great player but I have to agree -it's the only thing that's disappointed me thus far (apart from the fact that the first unit I received had a couple of stuck patch buttons and had to be replaced). I love the synth but the keyboard does feel a bit clunky to play, I've used my Dave Smith Mopho and Korg M3 keyboards as controllers but that's not practical most of the time - if the Sub37 had keys like either of those I'd be much happier. I guess it's worth pointing out for anyone considering buying one - make sure you have a good play first, otherwise the sound and features are fantastic for the money.

JonLukas
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Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by JonLukas » Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:23 pm

Does anyone know what springs I could order as possible replacements? I'd really like my Sub 37 to have a light touch closer to my Nord Lead, but to at least reduce the tension on the black keys so they better match the white keys would be a good first step.

Has anyone had any luck with modification?

Thanks,

-Jon
Pianoteq, Guda KickR, Drumaxx, Diva, Pigments, Flow Motion, Kontakt, Omnisphere 2, StudioLogic SL73, MainStage, Logic Pro X.
Downtempo performed live: http://echofabric.com

JazzMasta
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Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by JazzMasta » Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:50 am

The keys are WAY too stiff. This is one of biggest disappointments with the Sub37.
I can't believe how it could ever be approved for release with these keys.
Together with the crappy pitchwheel (which freaks out all the time, changing pitch randomly when you've used it for a while), this makes the sub37 more of an "experimentalist/weird sfx/electronica instrument" rather than a "performance/solo synth".

Subber37
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Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Subber37 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:52 am

@seanpark Moog sent me a replacement keybed (they don't apparently cost that much - around $30 hence their crappy quality I guess ;) ) - I wouldn't know where to get one otherwise!

I've only lightly used my Sub 37 the past months because I've been busy with other things but now it's back to using daily as I work on an album, but have developed the filter pot problem (*sigh*). this is currently being.. uhm, sorted, by moog... sort of (am waiting to hear back from the UK centre after writing to moog who directed me to them).

Anyway keybed wise, now I'm playing it more I find it's fine if you are playing a certain static style (inc black keys) esp standing up so it's not so bad, but when playing it in a faster / flowing fashion (esp when seated) it does feel kind stiff (I'd rather it be stiff than super loose and clunky though) so I'm "ok" with the keyboard, not in love with it just OK. I would have loved a nicer/better quality keybed on it with less slippy/cheap feeling plastic as I find my fingers slip off the black keys at times as they are both that little bit too stiff and shiny, maybe that'll get better as I wear them down ;).

Still love the Sub 37 itself though, in fact have sold off nearly all my other synths except the Sub 37 and a 5 octave digital (for pads and control of software/pianos etc). I'd be happy with the Subby as my only analog even as a fan of poly analogs, good if you are into downsizing.

Not had any probs with my pitch wheel yet but as I say I've actually not used it that much outside of the first couple months I bought it (spring last year), so maybe that's gonna present itself in time? :( though I'm not a heavy PBend wheel user, I save that for my Roland style sideways stick which is my preference for p-bend.

seanpark
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Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by seanpark » Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:42 pm

@Subber37

Thanks! Yes I also moved mine to a standing position and find the keybed is less of an issue now. However I am still looking for a replacement/improvement.

partyboy
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Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by partyboy » Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:16 pm

Do you guys think It's possible to buy a Sub 37 keybed from Moog that is equal to the keybed on my Voyager? I have pretty much put my Sub 37 in a corner and rarely turn it on these days, the keybed on it is terrible. My Sub 37 keys still feel really stiff, pretty much like something that would be on a toy. The black keys are much stiffer than the white keys which makes it even weirder to play.

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Bald Eagle
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Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Bald Eagle » Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:34 pm

I guess I'm one of the few that actually likes the action of the keybed. I prefer the stiffer feel.

grenert
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Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by grenert » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:06 pm

Subber37 wrote:Did the so called 'cheaper' keybeds on the Little Phatty suffer from so much wonkyness?

I had to pick up a cable today and so was at Guitar Center checking out the keyboards there. They had a used Little Phatty Tribute Edition. Boy, it has a really nice keyboard! Felt like a Voyager to me. Definitely better than the Sub Phatty (mushy) and 37 (agree it's pretty stiff) that were also on display. Obviously, a very different sound engine and interface, but if you want Moog sound and the keyboard feel is important to you, it might be worth trying one out. Not sure if all the different versions of the LP have the same keyboard.
Moog stuff: Slim Phatty, Minitaur, Mother-32, Werkstatt x2, MF-103, MF-104M, MF-108M
Running Moog software on Win7 64-bit
Dreams of a Voyager XL some day...

HawkMoog
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Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by HawkMoog » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:46 am

Is you guys keys level with each other mine are all over the place. I just got it today and had a hole in box from shipping wonder if keys got knocked out of alignment? Got it from Guitar Center and they shipped it in Moog box with nothing around it :(.

Image

Subber37
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Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Subber37 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:16 am

HawkMoog wrote:Is you guys keys level with each other mine are all over the place. I just got it today and had a hole in box from shipping wonder if keys got knocked out of alignment? Got it from Guitar Center and they shipped it in Moog box with nothing around it :(.

Image



Sadly quite a few sub 37s shipped with wonky keybeds. They are really cheap quality keybeds from china and due to the aftertouch strip (I think) it pushes some keys out of tolerance. The plastic internally is of the low quality type and not like top of the range fatar or roland style (old roland not new crappy roland). Mine was so bad (looked way worse than yours with one or two keys on the side slope and 2 or 3 jutting up like village idiots teeth) I had a new keybed sent out from moog to fit which is MUCH better (to the point that even though its still not perfect Its fine for me even with my OCD).

It's such a great synth, beautiful in general and packs in tons of features for the money and can sound awesome but as I've now had 3 - 4 issues with mine (still under warranty) I have to concede there's a few hundred out there from the 12,000? or so so sold that really didn't get the QA that the rest seemed to. The majority of Sub 37s seem ok but yeah, quite a high number slipped through.

There's no guarantee if you return your subby for replacement than the next one won't have a wonky keybed (or screen) or something worse so if you are handy and careful with a screwdriver it may be better to ask what Moog can do for you - if they can send you a visually inspected keybed to fit.

I doubt that shipping had anything to do with it sadly, even with a hole in the box, it's held pretty securely by the polystyrene ends.

Subber37
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Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Subber37 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:28 am

JonLukas wrote:Does anyone know what springs I could order as possible replacements? I'd really like my Sub 37 to have a light touch closer to my Nord Lead, but to at least reduce the tension on the black keys so they better match the white keys would be a good first step.

Has anyone had any luck with modification?

Thanks,

-Jon


I've said on here before I'd like a larger set of springs esp for the blacks because they are meant to (according to good design) be slightly less stiff springs for blacks as the throw isn't as large.. or the fulcrum or w/e :) - this makes the white and black respond with a similar touch while at the moment the black are more stiff than the whites (because they use the exact same spring as far as I know).

BUT thinking about it, I'd be loathe to even touch the keybed now I've got one that visually sits about straight as it seems quite fussy to having keys swapped around hence the bad tolerance we are seeing in the keybeds, and if I replaced all the springs with looser ones it could either make them all sit even more straight (yay!) or make it worse by having disturbed them (nay!)... I don't find it ENOUGH of a problem to risk getting a bad sitting keybed again I guess but if Moog ever do test new springs and confirm they don't mess up how the keys sit anymore than they do already then I'd be down for a set.

voyager0500
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Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by voyager0500 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:03 am

Hello

Any news on this? So the keybed in the Sub 37 is not a Fatar one?

Played it last night and there seems to be a sort of disconnect between pressing the key and hearing the sound. Almost like its a bit laggy for lack of a better explanation?

@Andy, is this still being looked at? Its a shame because the keybed on the Voyager is absolutely perfect!
'i used to be a plastic cup..'
-remarkable-

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