Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Everything Sub.
User avatar
Rufus the Dog
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:38 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Rufus the Dog » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:22 am

Two very interesting and considered replies from deanross and Subber37 there. I am by no means a proficient keyboard player but I too find the Sub37's keyboard a bit of an effort. As I think I have mentioned previously in this thread I have a Nord A1 stacked above my Sub37 and find the action of the A1 much more suitable to 'widdly' synth runs than the Sub37 leaving the latter more to the bass lines. I would love the Sub37 to have a similar action


R.

Subber37
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 5:38 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Subber37 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:47 pm

I was playing an old (naming no names) roland tonight for quite a while, beautiful sound and the keybed, while simple, just feels so solid and playable - and it's from 1984! 30 years old and it feels like a mercedes next to the Sub 37's wonky, overly stiff keybed. It's the one aspect of the Sub 37 that makes me not enjoy it as much as I could. Looks wise it makes the beautiful synth look scruffy from certain angles and mine's only 2 months old (it arrived this way from the factory btw).

It's a shame they can't do anything about this (it's not just the springs but that would help) but the misalignment and certain keys sitting slightly higher or bending left/right, not what you expect from moog nor a > £1000 mono synth. :cry:

Did the so called 'cheaper' keybeds on the Little Phatty suffer from so much wonkyness? Take a look directly from the front of your subby and see if the bottom 3 keys sit higher than the rest.. and the 4th white key up is like a ramp, left to right, leading down to the lower sitting keys. It's subtle but it's there and you can't unsee it. If not everyone has this 'fault' then there must be something do-able to rectify it for those who do have it, but almost every photo I've seen has it.

I'll try and take pictures of my keybed soon - a picture speaks a thousand words and all that.

Moog > if you have a better keybed sitting in the factory that is REALLY straight - please do a swap for me, it's depressing. :lol: :roll: :cry:

KincaidDesigns
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:50 pm

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by KincaidDesigns » Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:14 pm

I do have to chime in here. I don't see ANY of that on my Sub 37! Serial # 00097. All of my keys are perfectly level going across, the heights are all exactly the same. The spaces between each white key are also all perfectly even at 1/16th of an inch. Each of my keys has the same feel. I'm wondering if there were different batches of keybeds to account for what others are describing.

GregVDS
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:40 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by GregVDS » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:26 pm

Please Kincaidesign, participate to the Sub37 SN thread to report your if not already done :-).

Thanks,

Greg

GregVDS
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:40 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by GregVDS » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:27 pm

You did already, my mistake.

Tahnks again,

Greg

Subber37
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 5:38 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Subber37 » Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:42 pm

KincaidDesigns wrote:I do have to chime in here. I don't see ANY of that on my Sub 37! Serial # 00097. All of my keys are perfectly level going across, the heights are all exactly the same. The spaces between each white key are also all perfectly even at 1/16th of an inch. Each of my keys has the same feel. I'm wondering if there were different batches of keybeds to account for what others are describing.
I read that someone bought a Sub 37 and returned it due to a bad keybed then got a replacement that was much better, they claimed it even seemed like a different keybed but I doubt it. Moog could tell us but I don't suppose they will!

User avatar
Bald Eagle
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 11:25 am
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Bald Eagle » Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:16 pm

I still think the keybed is fine. I like the action.

Since the start of this thread I have examined every key. They are all perfectly even and spaced. I got a lucky run I suppose.

pedrofloyd
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:09 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by pedrofloyd » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:46 pm

Bald Eagle wrote:I still think the keybed is fine. I like the action.

Since the start of this thread I have examined every key. They are all perfectly even and spaced. I got a lucky run I suppose.
My keybed is fine too and the key action is not so bad in my opinion.
Greeetings
Hi,
here are some infos:
OS: windows 7 64 bits and XP SP3
notebooks: thoshiba and Dell both dual core
Audio interface: Echo firewire

OS (inc. 32/64 bit), DAWs, moog equipment and audio interfaces used in your setup.

4dubs
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:07 pm
Location: Maywood, NJ, USA

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by 4dubs » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:18 pm

My keybed is fine as well. Perhaps a little stiff and springy (and not nearly as good as the action on my Voyager), but keys are level and evenly spaced. Not my ideal keyboard action, but definitely not the worst I've encountered by a long shot.
Moog: Model D reissue, Voyager PE, Sub 37, ONE 8 voice, MF-102, Minifooger Delay (x2) / DSI: Prophet 6, Pro 2, Prophet REV2 16 voice / Nord Stage 2 SW73 / Studiologic Sledge 2.0 Black / Korg: Mono/Poly, Z1 / Arturia Matrixbrute

Subber37
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 5:38 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Subber37 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:23 am

Well I've taken photos - trust me, when you see mine IF yours was like mine you wouldn't be saying 'oh yes that's fine on a £1200 new synth' :lol:

I'm just too lazy to actually drag them off my camera and upload them right now or even write (again) to support (still waiting for a bonus parcel I was promised 3 months back so I think perhaps it would be a waste of time even pursing it). Mine is only 3 months old serial number in the 4000s btw.

I should clarify, the action of the keys is way down my list of concerns vs the LOOK of them. The rest of the Sub 37 looks so classy and expensive and that keybed is like a set of yellowed buck teeth jutting out of the mouth of a supermodel! :lol:

On a more serious note, it does annoy me because I realise should I ever wish to sell it in years to come that *I* would be left with the task of explaining these wonky keys (from the factory) which would probably mean the value of my unit is less than one with good keys, that kinda irks me. If there was a way moog could just swap my entire keybed for one that had been checked as being 'straight' and good then it would be appreciated. I could do the swap myself it's not hard (I service vintage synths too so a keybed swap is like making a sandwich to me) :mrgreen:

DeeoneLB
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:38 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by DeeoneLB » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:41 am

JonLukas wrote:Does anyone have instructions for removing the keyboard from the Sub 37?

I'm just about ready to open it up and try to find replacement springs myself. If I do find springs that work well, I will post here and let everyone know.


yes please !!

DeeoneLB
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:38 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by DeeoneLB » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:48 am

same problem with the kbd playability and the middle C key is more sensible than the others for aftertouch ... really


D ;
France

User avatar
aroom
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:46 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by aroom » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:45 am

I've got the same problem with the after touch. I've been in contact with moog about it.

here is a part of the response :

"The C keys on the Sub 37 all have a small bracket which holds the after pressure strip securely in place. I have seen issues pop up with the brackets being too tight and pinching the pressure sensor. This can be remedied usually by popping off the key and loosening said bracket. I can walk you through this process or if you wish you we can look into getting your Sub replaced under warranty."

I didn't have the chance yet to get it fixed. I think I will do it myself, with moog help.

franklinstower
Posts: 191
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:10 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by franklinstower » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:09 pm

What do you guys think of the velocity sensitivity on this thing? I am just a little disappointed in it because it seems very difficult to play very subtle and quiet with it the way it is. I have been using my left hand (I only play bass) to just turn the volume down in subtle moments but for fast playing its hard to do it just with just the velocity sensitivity. I am asking because it may just be that I still kind of suck. :D

MoogProg
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:09 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by MoogProg » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:21 am

franklinstower wrote:What do you guys think of the velocity sensitivity on this thing? I am just a little disappointed in it because it seems very difficult to play very subtle and quiet with it the way it is. I have been using my left hand (I only play bass) to just turn the volume down in subtle moments but for fast playing its hard to do it just with just the velocity sensitivity. I am asking because it may just be that I still kind of suck. :D
Try using an expression pedal with CV Volume input. I found it to be almost indispensable for dynamic live playing. But in general I find the Sub37 keyboard and its response curve to be quite good. I mean, if I turn VEL all the way up for both FILTER and AMP EGs, I can control the entire range using my playing, from silence to wide-open.

I've likened the Sub37 keybed to a weighted keybed or even an actual piano in terms of the range of force it wants from us, enough to throw a hammer. Completely different than a super-fast Model D, or a 'waterfall' keybed, or a DX7 keybed. It is what it is (a new model, not a re-issue), and I find it very playable.

Post Reply