Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Everything Sub.
jabberwalky
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:09 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by jabberwalky » Fri May 15, 2015 8:11 pm

I'm primarily a keys player, and after only 2 weeks, they are already much more playable. It's possible to break them in.
http://www.soundcloud.com/variar Retrowave music
Sub37, Minikorg700s, Maxikorg800dv, Eps16+, Roland D50, Dx7, An1x, Korg Poly61, Paia9700s, Korg Ds8, Micron, Shruthi1
Windows 8.1 64bit, Ableton 9.1, Vsts, Scarlett 18i8, Pot of coffee

Control_Voltage
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:59 pm

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Control_Voltage » Mon May 18, 2015 11:59 am

Hi Guys,

Andy from Moog Tech Support here!!!

Subber37: My apologies that your key weight became dislodged, if you will please contact me directly at [email protected] I can either send you a new key and walk you through the installation, or if you prefer it is possible to use super glue to reattach the key weight. The former solution I think is superior.

To all above discussing the tension on the keys of the Sub 37, I have provided this feedback to our engineering department for future revisions of the keyboard, and I am attempting to source lighter tension springs for this keybed. Once I have these in sufficient quantities, I will post here and you guys can request these springs for changing out on your Sub 37.

Thanks,
Andy Hughes
Service Department Manager
Moog Music, Inc.

artQ
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:20 pm

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by artQ » Tue May 26, 2015 4:15 am

Thanks for the Info and promise on those tension springs Andy. Very nice. Looking forward for the News.
Best wishes
| MOOG | Voyager Performer | MINITAUR | SUBPHATTY | SLIMPHATTY | SUB37 | MOTHER32 |MF-101 | MF-103 | MF-104M | MF-105M | MF-107 | MF-108M | VX-351 | CP-251 | MOOG |

User avatar
Rufus the Dog
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:38 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Rufus the Dog » Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:49 pm

I have a Nord A1 stacked above my Sub37… just hobby use you understand not in a band or anything.. but I find fast runs on the A1 easier than the Sub37 and would welcome a slightly lighter touch to the Sub37 when the springs become available


R.

hofi
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 4:14 pm

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by hofi » Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:21 pm

I have over two weeks of sub 37 and noticed a slight problem with the keyboard. A couple of keys has a different amount ... How is this possible in such a class instrument? Should I be worried?

For example, photos:

https://goo.gl/photos/j2zWSMKvsmNgZFrU7

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gzFsumb_bmQ/maxresdefault.jpg
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/electronic-music-instruments-electronic-music-production/409880d1406746523-moog-sub-37-sub37_keyboard.jpg

User avatar
Rene K
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:17 pm

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Rene K » Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:53 pm

Control_Voltage wrote:Hi Guys,

To all above discussing the tension on the keys of the Sub 37, I have provided this feedback to our engineering department for future revisions of the keyboard, and I am attempting to source lighter tension springs for this keybed. Once I have these in sufficient quantities, I will post here and you guys can request these springs for changing out on your Sub 37.


wow, that's why I love Moog so much.
never seen a better user oriented support.

you all did a great job!

seanpark
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:05 pm

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by seanpark » Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:18 pm

I would also prefer the lighter springs. Thanks for looking in to it.

Subber37
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 5:38 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Subber37 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:35 am

I guess I'd prefer lighter springs too - esp for the black keys! Also I think these springs on this fairly *ahem* cheap keybed is causing them to not sit straight and a bit wonky.. well maybe it's the springs who knows. One of my keys bends to the left a little leaving a larger gap between keys (I often see this on old old synths with wear but suprised to find it on a brand new modern synth! :( - )

Will be in touch about a poss key replacement for this rattly - weight off key. Thanks Andy!

User avatar
Meneer Vincent
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:27 am
Location: Netherlands - Rotterdam

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Meneer Vincent » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:43 am

I have had replace all the keybed from my SubPhatty by the local dealer for al the click-sounds but after a while it was the same again. And Yesterday when I played it it was even worse.
It starts at the middle A key. The key itself is also wobbly and every time I press it you hear this plastic clicks.
What shall I do.
This springs offer also for owners of a SubPhatty?
And second whats's the best way to replace them (warranty) I am not a techie...

ringokidf
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:45 pm

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by ringokidf » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:27 pm

Hi

I got that uneven key bed and the hard key feel too.

Subber37
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 5:38 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Subber37 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:12 pm

From what I've seen (even in some press / review shots) the Sub 37 has the bottom three keys sitting very slightly higher than the rest (the whites) and the 4th key kinda tilted in a very subtle way. It's as if that end of the keybed is kept higher by the aftertouch strip as it bends around the board (or something??). I wonder if there's anything we can do to fix this ourselves rather than everyone (who cares) having to ship moogs back and forth around their countries, possibly to end up with much the same wonky keybed anyway. I love my Sub 37 and the feel in general is quality, but I admit for a brand new instrument the keybed left a lot to be desired (i've bought 20+ year old synths with 'straighter' keybeds than this :( - )

Anyway it IS only a small issue but a shame that these niggles detract from what many consider to be a classic synth in the waiting, and one that many of us wish to cherish for years.

MacAquinas
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:50 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by MacAquinas » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:14 pm

My Sub37 A key got stuck down and I had to take it apart and re-assemble it .
Black Minimoog Voyager XL, Sub37, Slim Phatty, Mother-32, MF-104M SD, MF-105M, MP-201, CP-251, Theremini, Animoog ;-) . Roland Fantom G8 & Integra-7, Korg MS-20

Subber37
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 5:38 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Subber37 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:12 am

MacAquinas wrote:My Sub37 A key got stuck down and I had to take it apart and re-assemble it .


One of my e keys bends to the left slightly and I think it rubs against the next key a touch so never feels quite as smooth! As said it's a shame these keybed quality issues are present, while not show stoppers nor unfixable, on an expensive (relatively) synth. The rest of the build is so nice by comparison and feels like quality (except maybe the plastic used for the screen which seems cheap and easy to scuff) and I see a few modern synth makers outsourcing their keybeds (china) which is often the worst quality part. I think overall it feels quite good but yeah the black keys still feel a touch stiff to me (they should probably have longer less strong springs than the white keys as on Roland Keybeds of the past to allow less resistance for the shorter length) as trying to do a glissando on the blacks is not really a smooth experience right now.

Anyway, still love the 37 regardless but admit I did expect better quality concerning these key issues on a brand new synth in 2015! I've got a 30 year old roland that cost me £150 here that runs rings around it keybed wise. :lol:

deanross
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:05 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by deanross » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:42 pm

I really wanted to respond to this thread and have been waiting for the right time, to let other Sub 37 users share their experiences. Now that I've read all the posts, here are my thoughts. First of all, this is without doubt one of the best synths I've ever owned, for so many reasons. I couldn't be happier and I've spent countless hours in front of it since I got it. However as a keyboard player, as opposed to a sequencer/soundscaper, I bought this instrument to play, not to use as a MIDI sound module. And that is where I feel this otherwise superlative synth is a bit of a letdown. Compared to the Voyager (which is admittedly much more expensive) the keybed on the Sub feels, as others have noted, too heavy and inconsistent to play with any accuracy or finesse. It could have to do with the tension of the springs perhaps--I've been leaving a set of weights across the keybed every night just to loosen them, and it's helped a little bit--but I can't help but feel that when designing this synth that the team made a conscious decision to use that particular keybed. I'm sure Moog wanted to bring this synth in at an attractive price point and in that they've succeeded brilliantly, as has been proven. And perhaps their thinking was that the majority of customers will use the Sub as a sound source--indeed most of the youtube videos online bear that out--but as a player I would very much like to see either a replacement keybed superior to the current one, new springs, or whatever it takes to make this truly a first class instrument! Not everyone will be happy with any keybed of course--some like a heavier action, some lighter, others will feel they got it right--but as someone who plays a Voyager, and a Model D with the gorgeous Pratt Read keybed, there is no comparison. Any improvements will be most welcome and appreciated!
DKR

Subber37
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 5:38 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Subber37 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:43 am

deanross wrote:I really wanted to respond to this thread and have been waiting for the right time, to let other Sub 37 users share their experiences. Now that I've read all the posts, here are my thoughts. First of all, this is without doubt one of the best synths I've ever owned, for so many reasons. I couldn't be happier and I've spent countless hours in front of it since I got it. However as a keyboard player, as opposed to a sequencer/soundscaper, I bought this instrument to play, not to use as a MIDI sound module. And that is where I feel this otherwise superlative synth is a bit of a letdown. Compared to the Voyager (which is admittedly much more expensive) the keybed on the Sub feels, as others have noted, too heavy and inconsistent to play with any accuracy or finesse. It could have to do with the tension of the springs perhaps--I've been leaving a set of weights across the keybed every night just to loosen them, and it's helped a little bit--but I can't help but feel that when designing this synth that the team made a conscious decision to use that particular keybed. I'm sure Moog wanted to bring this synth in at an attractive price point and in that they've succeeded brilliantly, as has been proven. And perhaps their thinking was that the majority of customers will use the Sub as a sound source--indeed most of the youtube videos online bear that out--but as a player I would very much like to see either a replacement keybed superior to the current one, new springs, or whatever it takes to make this truly a first class instrument! Not everyone will be happy with any keybed of course--some like a heavier action, some lighter, others will feel they got it right--but as someone who plays a Voyager, and a Model D with the gorgeous Pratt Read keybed, there is no comparison. Any improvements will be most welcome and appreciated!


Yeah I'd welcome that as an optional upgrade/trade in (send your old cheap Chinese keybed back) it is a shame that the otherwise beautiful 37 is compromised on its keybed. Which while I mostly play it fine (I'm more of a player too) it definitely has a few quality and ergonomics issues compared to say a top-spec Roland. Mostly I'd just like the keys to sit straight (left/right and up/down) because something about a slightly scruffy keybed on a brand new, relatively expensive, synth kills some of the joy for me. It should feel top class and the keybed is making it feel (or look) cheaper than I like for the money.

I noticed the Prophet 6 also has the same spring system (not sure if the same Chinese cheap keybed - but most probably) and there's something about that space saving spring system (similar too to the old bad keybeds on say a Polysix but at least that was light and straight) that doesn't feel as good as the keybeds from Yamaha and Roland in their high end synths (either long springs or spring plates under the keys). The thing with those synths though is how uniform they are to play, how all the keys sit straight (at least for 20 years :lol: ) and I wish Moog had put a little more effort into their keybed. They outsource the keybed like most smaller synth makers and obviously look for the best price to cut costs but..

tl;dr? An upgrade/crossgrade/tradein keybed with quality mechanism and uniform action would be something I'm interested in, though based on how far out they've already placed this one (so you see the rear holes of the keys) I doubt there's any room left at all to fit a better mechanism keybed (as they tend to extend back beyond the fascia a lot further).

Post Reply