Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

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Rene K
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:17 pm

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Rene K » Wed May 13, 2015 5:33 am

I'm also a classic synth player who didn´t like the sub37 key action

My other keys are Yamaha dx7, KX88 and KX1. and have no Problems and like the DX keys for legato and fast play synth stuff.
But after a 1/2 h intensive playing with the sub37 keys I got pain in the underarms and in my little and ring finger. Its easier to play a synth lick on the kX88. For my that is a no go on these superb performing synth.
the little phatty and specially the voyager have a way better keyboard action.
I planning to install an old dx7 keybed on the sub 37.

best wishes to all synth player.
René

MoogProg
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:09 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by MoogProg » Wed May 13, 2015 8:44 am

Please feel free to consider me one of the most pedestrian players in all of Greater Progdom, but I'm playing Cinema Show runs in 7/8 with no problem. Also, the comment about 'loosening up' might be true; feels more relaxed after six months, but it also might be adjustments in my technique making it seems so.

Guitarists deal with action and scale issues all the time. I once heard an incredible Prog musician play anything you could name on his micro-key Casio (with gaffer tape holding the batteries). His band-mate played along on one of those tiny guitars you'd find in El Mercado. I was never the same again, and actually looked at music differently, started over in a sense. Now I'll play anything/anytime/anywhere.

partyboy
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:06 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by partyboy » Wed May 13, 2015 8:19 pm

I also contacted Moog Support last week to ask if anything could be done about my Sub 37 keyboard keys being too stiff and I too did not receive a reply. I'm not a master player by any means, but I know when something doesn't feel quiet right. The keys feel like something you'd expect to be on a toy or perhaps a cheap controller keyboard. By far the Sub 37 has the worst keys in my collection and it sounds like I''m not the only one noticing this. It would be nice to hear something? from Moog, support ticket doesn't seem to work?

Toine
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:17 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Toine » Thu May 14, 2015 2:59 am

No offense but isn't it all about technique?
I own Nord keyboards, their keybed is to responsive (feels cheap) for me. My korg, Nord, Yamaha synths, Hammond organ and Roland digital piano have all totally different responsiveness and keyboards actions.
I personally like the key action from the Sub 37 pretty much.

Mike37
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:29 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Mike37 » Thu May 14, 2015 4:59 am

Toine wrote:No offense but isn't it all about technique?
I own Nord keyboards, their keybed is to responsive (feels cheap) for me. My korg, Nord, Yamaha synths, Hammond organ and Roland digital piano have all totally different responsiveness and keyboards actions.
Try playing authentic hammond organ parts on a grand piano action... You see my point?

Toine
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:17 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Toine » Thu May 14, 2015 5:06 am

In that case I see your point absolutely. Because Hammond (and some other organs and synths) have waterfall keyboards which allows a certain style of playing that, in combination with the sound engine, creates an unique sound.

MoogProg
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:09 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by MoogProg » Thu May 14, 2015 5:40 am

Mike37 wrote:Try playing authentic Hammond organ parts on a grand piano action... You see my point?
Sure do see the point, but are we comparing the Sub37 to the Model D and expecting the same keybed response because we hope to play the same classic parts the same way on two different instruments? Seems to me only keybeds with aftertouch need apply. 8) This is surely the reason beneath the deeper trigger point (pun intended), and possibly also the loosening up of the pads as they break-in.


Of course, complete speculation from one who has not yet finished a single cup of coffee this morning.

JonLukas
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Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:27 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, California
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Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by JonLukas » Thu May 14, 2015 10:18 pm

Does anyone have instructions for removing the keyboard from the Sub 37?

I'm just about ready to open it up and try to find replacement springs myself. If I do find springs that work well, I will post here and let everyone know.
Pianoteq, Guda KickR, Drumaxx, Diva, Pigments, Flow Motion, Kontakt, Omnisphere 2, StudioLogic SL73, MainStage, Logic Pro X.
Downtempo performed live: http://echofabric.com

GregVDS
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:40 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by GregVDS » Fri May 15, 2015 1:43 am

You know about your warranty being ruined right? Don't hesitate to take pictures of the inside and post them here :-) Please please please?

Subber37
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 5:38 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Subber37 » Fri May 15, 2015 7:24 am

further investigation today showed that a lose white plastic piece I found in the box of my SUB 37 turned out to be one of the key weights from under the keys!! :shock: - I thought that key felt a bit different. I've manage to clip it back in (just enough room) without dismantling, but the key sounds very clacky now vs the rest (not damped), and I think the weight just makes the sound more evident, it was probably there before! I don't know if something inside is broken off the key so it's not touching it's return felt or whatever but it's a bit annoying. I may have to get in touch with moog to send me a new C key as it currently feels and sounds like something off a toy keyboard. :roll:

Subber37
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 5:38 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Subber37 » Fri May 15, 2015 7:25 am

GregVDS wrote:You know about your warranty being ruined right? Don't hesitate to take pictures of the inside and post them here :-) Please please please?
There won't be much inside to look at - control panel will be an enclosed PCB (so no knobs to look at) and mainboard will be a small thing full of SMT - it won't look like old analogs, but no new analog synths do these days really.

B3 guy
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:36 pm

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by B3 guy » Fri May 15, 2015 11:01 am

I had a dead key upon arrival. I called Andy and he walked me through removing the keybed and fixing it on the spot without voiding the warranty. Works great now!

Mike37
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:29 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Mike37 » Fri May 15, 2015 12:35 pm

B3 guy wrote:I had a dead key upon arrival. I called Andy and he walked me through removing the keybed and fixing it on the spot without voiding the warranty. Works great now!
Sounds promising! Can someone recommend a keyboard brand/model, which can be ordered and fitted on the Sub 37 (as close to the Voyager action as possible)? Thanks. :)

Subber37
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 5:38 am

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by Subber37 » Fri May 15, 2015 3:06 pm

B3 guy wrote:I had a dead key upon arrival. I called Andy and he walked me through removing the keybed and fixing it on the spot without voiding the warranty. Works great now!
Back in the day pro instruments were made to flip their lids to replace parts like keys (esp for tourers) so it would be a bit short-sighted to lose warranty just by changing a key (and sending it back to moog from across the world would also be a bit silly). Keys are easy to change on synths like this, it's making sure you don't go stabbing your screwdriver into the mainboard (with it powered up) that some people have trouble with I guess. :lol:

B3 guy
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:36 pm

Re: Sub 37 - Keyboard quality and playability

Post by B3 guy » Fri May 15, 2015 8:02 pm

Subber37 wrote:
Back in the day pro instruments were made to flip their lids
True. I may have spent more of my life under the hood of my Fender Rhodes than in front of it.

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