S37 - Ladder Filter Collapsing!

Everything Sub.
Asymetrical
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:47 pm

Re: S37 - Ladder Filter Collapsing!

Post by Asymetrical » Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:26 pm

Mike37 wrote:I expect a Sub 37 (fresh from the factory) arriving at my local store the upcoming week. Do these units also have this flaw? Should I rather wait for the next batch/shipment 4-5 weeks from now? Even if the filter cutoff knob doesn't break during the first few months, this hardware defect could pop up at any time after the warranty period... :(

Thou the defect sucks.....I'd do it all again. I'm stoked to have unit 234 of this model, Its so much fun and so huge to wrap your brain around I'd say the sooner you get one the happier you'll be. Cheers

GregVDS
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:40 am

Re: S37 - Ladder Filter Collapsing!

Post by GregVDS » Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:09 am

I bought mine a month ago or so, and have absolutely no defect. None of the pots are behaving erraticaly or anything. Mine is SN3763 and has been built in 01/2015.

Mike37
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:29 am

Re: S37 - Ladder Filter Collapsing!

Post by Mike37 » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:37 am

Well, that's the problem. We don't know if the filter cutoff pot on every Sub 37 unit will develop this issue at some point (ie. Moog using a technically subpar hardware component), or if only certain Sub 37 units are affected (ie. the supplier/brand of the pot has poor quality control, and only some of the pots being defective). I would appreciate clarification on this issue from Moog, as it's an expensive repair after the warranty period.
Last edited by Mike37 on Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:41 pm, edited 4 times in total.

pedrofloyd
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:09 am

Re: S37 - Ladder Filter Collapsing!

Post by pedrofloyd » Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:18 am

This is a big deal in my opinion.
It would be like driving a new car knowing that the steering is defective.
I think MOOG should express an official position regarding this issue in order to respect customers who have invested in their product.
I purchased my sub 37 two months ago and I demand that the product is perfect and not affected by a defect that could occur at any time during a performance.
If I had known of this problem I would have waited to buy the sub.
Now I wonder how long moog is aware of the problem!
Waiting for good news.......
Greetings from Italy
Hi,
here are some infos:
OS: windows 7 64 bits and XP SP3
notebooks: thoshiba and Dell both dual core
Audio interface: Echo firewire

OS (inc. 32/64 bit), DAWs, moog equipment and audio interfaces used in your setup.

littlemachine
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:52 am

Re: S37 - Ladder Filter Collapsing!

Post by littlemachine » Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:10 am

Since it seems to have affected so many people (and potentially many more with still working hardware) it would be good if Moog made an official announcement on this, and from which Serial Number they replaced the part. And some instructions on what to do if your filter knob starts to have issues.

Tyler
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:56 am

Re: S37 - Ladder Filter Collapsing!

Post by Tyler » Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:02 pm

Having been the originator of this topic, I just want to be clear about a couple of things. First, my Sub 37 did not arrive with this problem. It simply started to act up just four months after having worked with it. Secondly, the ladder filter knob is fully functional (it hasn't come off, as others have experienced) but the problem is plainly an electronic issue. I should also add that I unboxed this synth, set it up on a stand in my studio and this has been the working environment for it. I have transported it nowhere else and it has been extremely well cared for. Call it a ghost in the machine! Everything else seems pretty much operational and functional. Please refer back to my original post if the problem I'm speaking to here is unclear.

GregVDS
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:40 am

Re: S37 - Ladder Filter Collapsing!

Post by GregVDS » Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:43 pm

I would not hesitate to contact Moog and the place I have purchased the Sub37. I think only Moog can sort out what is precisely the origin of the problem. If the Pot axis is not wobbly as some have experienced, it can be the resistive ramp inside the pot, or a faulty solder joint between the pot and pcb, or it can be one of the filter circuit components on the analog board which is defective or has a faulty solder joint.

You can maybe modulate the Filter cutoff entire range with the mod wheel and see if the filter opens up and closes smoothly. If so, you know the analog board is ok, since you used a completely different part of the user interface to act on the filter cutoff. You'll know also that it's not (sadly) a software bug or mispatch (I like this one :-)).

If the problem occurs only when you actually turns the filter cutoff knob, and the jumps and collapses are reproducible, and occur more often in a certain frequency range, as you described it, I'd guess it's the actual potentiometer resistive ramp which is faulty and the pot should be replaced.

Hope this helps.

Greg

Tyler
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:56 am

Re: S37 - Ladder Filter Collapsing!

Post by Tyler » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:00 pm

GregVDS wrote: Hop this helps.
Well... thanks Greg, for your great suggestions. No matter what the trouble is looks pretty much like I'm going to have to ship it back!

musicismath
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:18 pm

Re: S37 - Ladder Filter Collapsing!

Post by musicismath » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:19 pm

Had mine in November but due to work and having to rewire and refit my music room I hadn't got it out the box for more than maybe 2hrs.
Now my music room is sorted and it's only really been out of the box in the past 2 weeks and used for a few hours before this cropped up. I thought I noticed something odd when I first used it; distorted lfo like breakdown in the 500hz range when moving the Filter cutoff knob. Gutted that I will have to send it back to be fixed, I am time limited at the moment so getting around to taking it to the post office or arranging pick-up is awkward. If easy enough to fix I would do it myself.
Really gutted but it hasn't stopped me playing it, all be it trying to avoid messing with the Filter cuttoff knob too often.
OS = Win64
DAWs = Sonar X2, Ableton 9.5, Reason 8
Audio Interface = M-Audio Fast Track Ultra 8r
Sub37

KOlectric
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:19 pm

Re: S37 - Ladder Filter Collapsing!

Post by KOlectric » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:26 pm

Hellooo, I've been very excited about getting my Sub 37 in the mail very soon. This thread has definitely been on my mind and made me feel a little nervous about my choice. Is there a reason I should be concerned if I have one of the newer models (since I just ordered it in March)? or is this something that would result in needing to return the synth IF this was a problem? OR can this be fixed by firmware? How do we know what models would have this problem? Are there people out there that know these answers? My apologies if I'm too uninformed on this topic. Thanks!
K

Tyler
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:56 am

Re: S37 - Ladder Filter Collapsing!

Post by Tyler » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:26 pm

musicismath wrote: Really gutted but it hasn't stopped me playing it, all be it trying to avoid messing with the Filter cuttoff knob too often.
Hey, I know the feeling very well my friend. I'm half way through a recording project with the Sub 37 as the main voice and am clammering to finish, and all! Hopefully we can get em' fixed!

GregVDS
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:40 am

Re: S37 - Ladder Filter Collapsing!

Post by GregVDS » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:59 am

KOlectric wrote:Hellooo, I've been very excited about getting my Sub 37 in the mail very soon. This thread has definitely been on my mind and made me feel a little nervous about my choice. Is there a reason I should be concerned if I have one of the newer models (since I just ordered it in March)? or is this something that would result in needing to return the synth IF this was a problem? OR can this be fixed by firmware? How do we know what models would have this problem? Are there people out there that know these answers? My apologies if I'm too uninformed on this topic. Thanks!
K
I started a SN Sub37 list, for fun, but it seems the faulty cutoff filter knob stuff is limited to the early series. But maybe that can be biased by the only 20 records currently, and maybe that the problem could only develop later. We'll see in a few months...

Don't hesitate to record your Sub37 in the topic so we can have that kind of track.

Greg

musicismath
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:18 pm

Re: S37 - Ladder Filter Collapsing!

Post by musicismath » Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:19 pm

Mine is #2137....hopefully those who have the newer batch don't have the issue...although that doesn't help me much lol.
OS = Win64
DAWs = Sonar X2, Ableton 9.5, Reason 8
Audio Interface = M-Audio Fast Track Ultra 8r
Sub37

Control_Voltage
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:59 pm

Re: S37 - Ladder Filter Collapsing!

Post by Control_Voltage » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:03 pm

Hello Everyone,

Andy from the Moog Tech Lab here.

Please, if you are experiencing an issue with any of your Moog products, contact me directly and I will be more than happy to assist you with sorting out the issue. You can reach me at [email protected] or by phone (828) 251-0090 (tech support extensions are 221, 217, and 204)

I have seen a few pots fail on these synthesizers(but it is a very low number relative to the considerable number of Sub 37's that have been produced over the past several months), and the Cutoff Pot is BY FAR the most fun knob to tweak(admit it, you know its true!) so it stands to reason it will bear the heaviest usage. We test our gear rigorously before it leaves the factory, but despite our best effort to be diligent, occasionally these things do happen. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Please rest assured that Moog will stand behind our products(and if necessary extend your warranty for any issue that seems pervasive), and we will do our very best to make the repair process as quick and hassle free as possible.

Thanks,
Andy Hughes
Service Department Manager
Moog Music, Inc.

GregVDS
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:40 am

Re: S37 - Ladder Filter Collapsing!

Post by GregVDS » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:27 pm

Amazing support from Moog :-).

I'm highly convinced that the forums always render a very difformed image of reliability, as a lot of people with no problem at all do not have to search for solutions, and do not post just to express their simple joy to own a product that's simply (and splendidly for Moog) does what it does.

Greg

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