Sub 37 Osc Variance

charbot · Post by **charbot** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:15 am

Lets talk about oscillator variance- its a new parameter in the upcoming 37 1.1 FW. Ostensibly, i understand what it is and how it works, but in practice...less so. Id like to hear other's thoughts/ experiences.

How much osc variance would one find on a 'classic' vintage synth, like the model d?

Would this be generally a 'set and forget' parameter?

Any chance that this would win over those who feel the 37 sounds too sterile/precise? (lets leave 'harsh' out of the equation- only talking about oscillator tracking)

gencomprodukts · Post by **gencomprodukts** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:53 am

Well, 3 to 4c is enough for me (3,1 to 3,5c max is perfect). Too much variance is useless and unusable, at least for me.

charbot · Post by **charbot** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:00 pm

thats what i was thinking for 'normal' use , but the parameter is pretty wide- goes up to 40c. w/ lends for some cool spacey and ethereal sounds; kinda begs for mod destination. I would have thought that the effect would sound similar to subtle detuning w/the freq knob, but it is pretty different.

gencomprodukts · Post by **gencomprodukts** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:13 pm

charbot wrote:thats what i was thinking for 'normal' use , but the parameter is pretty wide- goes up to 40c. w/ lends for some cool spacey and ethereal sounds; kinda begs for mod destination. I would have thought that the effect would sound similar to subtle detuning w/the freq knob, but it is pretty different.

You right, it's really different to the Fequency or Beat Freq functions. The wide range is pretty nice for weird sounds but for me, 4c is the maximum in a musical context. It also seems that it doesnt works on each notes. Some notes are triggering the Variance, others not. It's pretty strange.

_DemonDan_ · Post by **_DemonDan_** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:49 pm

gencomprodukts wrote:It also seems that it {Variance} doesn't work on each note. Some notes are triggering the Variance, others not.

Hi gencomprodukts,

Every time you hit a key the Variance is randomized between 0 and the Variance value you chose.

gencomprodukts · Post by **gencomprodukts** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:28 pm

_DemonDan_ wrote:
gencomprodukts wrote:It also seems that it {Variance} doesn't work on each note. Some notes are triggering the Variance, others not.
Hi gencomprodukts,

Every time you hit a key the Variance is randomized between 0 and the Variance value you chose.

Hi Dan,
Thanks for these interesting informations

Subber37 · Post by **Subber37** » Fri May 08, 2015 5:46 pm

I've had it at '10' all day and made some beautiful, thick warm sounds. I don't think it's too high personally, but more subtle settings may be 'safer' in general. I'd only had it a day or so before the update so I can't exactly compare mentally how better it is or not (in a gloopy organic alive VCO way) but I do know it sounds fantastic either way, and so it did before the update too.

Sihaz · Post by **Sihaz** » Sat May 09, 2015 6:40 pm

Maybe a future tweak could be to choose a random amount between 1 and the number you choose so that you always have a little variance going on...

Subber37 · Post by **Subber37** » Sun May 10, 2015 8:51 am

Sihaz wrote:Maybe a future tweak could be to choose a random amount between 1 and the number you choose so that you always have a little variance going on...

Isn't that really what it already does? You just set the upper limit. Randomising the randomising limit may add even more granularity to the 'alive' feeling but may be taking it a bit far if it already hits '1' or even '0' no matter the upper limit. Maybe the algorithm already is biased towards the lower numbers too so things don't get too crazy...

... but then if we randomize the randomiser... what's to stop us asking them to randomize the randomiser that randomizes the first randomiser (you see where this could end up) and all within a certain MS of processing, maybe a bit OTT!

Also I have to disagree that 4 is the limit for 'musicality', I've no problem with '10' and possibly more. It's very subtle and I've heard much worse effect on actual old analogs that still sound great. I wouldn't advocate high settings but I can't agree it's not musical depending on the sound and need within the song.

gencomprodukts · Post by **gencomprodukts** » Sun May 10, 2015 10:54 am

Subber37 wrote:
Sihaz wrote:
Also I have to disagree that 4 is the limit for 'musicality', I've no problem with '10' and possibly more. It's very subtle and I've heard much worse effect on actual old analogs that still sound great. I wouldn't advocate high settings but I can't agree it's not musical depending on the sound and need within the song.

Well, it depends of your programming. If you have a straight programm (no frequency detune or Beat Freq) it probably works well otherwise having the variance to 10 could be messy, that's my personnal experience. Anyway, it's subjective. Everyone has a certain feeling about how to program a sound, how it should sounds in a musical context so the best thing to do is to experiment the function.

B3 guy · Post by **B3 guy** » Sun May 10, 2015 11:29 am

I think it would be great to be able to set the upper and lower limits for the variance in a future update. So instead of setting the variance to 10 and experiencing variations between 0 and 10 you could set the upper limit to 10 and and the lower limit to 8 and experience variations between 8 and 10. This would give the user much more control.

Mike37 · Post by **Mike37** » Sun May 10, 2015 2:31 pm

B3 guy wrote:I think it would be great to be able to set the upper and lower limits for the variance in a future update. So instead of setting the variance to 10 and experiencing variations between 0 and 10 you could set the upper limit to 10 and and the lower limit to 8 and experience variations between 8 and 10. This would give the user much more control.

That'a a great idea. Hopefully Amos can add that in a future update.

JazzMasta · Post by **JazzMasta** » Mon May 11, 2015 2:07 am

Mike37 wrote:
B3 guy wrote:I think it would be great to be able to set the upper and lower limits for the variance in a future update. So instead of setting the variance to 10 and experiencing variations between 0 and 10 you could set the upper limit to 10 and and the lower limit to 8 and experience variations between 8 and 10. This would give the user much more control.
That'a a great idea. Hopefully Amos can add that in a future update.

Well, if we're not careful what we're asking for we're gonna end up with a menu that's a thousand pages long, and one thing that definitely can't be upgraded with software is the size of that tiny screen..

It's nice with endless features and all, but at some point we may have to step back and accept the fact that the sub37 is never gonna fulfill _every_ little need from _every_ user. The recent update already brought features I never hoped for in this thing. It's an awesome instrument already.

Maybe it's better to let the people at Moog work on some new instruments instead?
Maybe we could all start using the features that the s37 already have instead of spending our days here dreaming up new ones?

Just a thought

Mike37 · Post by **Mike37** » Mon May 11, 2015 4:15 am

I understand your sentiment, but in this case osc variance max/min range would be a minor update to a function already there. It's really one of very few necessary updates to make IMO. I can't really see any other additions being necessary at the moment, besides a couple of bug fixes..

JazzMasta wrote:
Mike37 wrote:
B3 guy wrote:I think it would be great to be able to set the upper and lower limits for the variance in a future update. So instead of setting the variance to 10 and experiencing variations between 0 and 10 you could set the upper limit to 10 and and the lower limit to 8 and experience variations between 8 and 10. This would give the user much more control.
That'a a great idea. Hopefully Amos can add that in a future update.

Well, if we're not careful what we're asking for we're gonna end up with a menu that's a thousand pages long, and one thing that definitely can't be upgraded with software is the size of that tiny screen..

It's nice with endless features and all, but at some point we may have to step back and accept the fact that the sub37 is never gonna fulfill _every_ little need from _every_ user. The recent update already brought features I never hoped for in this thing. It's an awesome instrument already.

Maybe it's better to let the people at Moog work on some new instruments instead?
Maybe we could all start using the features that the s37 already have instead of spending our days here dreaming up new ones?

Just a thought

vinnyburns · Post by **vinnyburns** » Mon May 11, 2015 5:02 am

Mike37 wrote:It's really one of very few necessary updates to make IMO. I can't really see any other additions being necessary at the moment, besides a couple of bug fixes.

I think having current settings for each knob displayed on the screen is a more useful upgrade and has been requested much more.
The Osc Variance was never even mentioned in the original spec of the Sub37. Within a week of being released, it's not good enough. The 'Slop' parameter on my Prophet 08 does not do what you are asking and that has been out years and everyones manages just fine with it.

Moog Music Forum

Sub 37 Osc Variance

Sub 37 Osc Variance

Re: Sub 37 Osc Variance

Re: Sub 37 Osc Variance

Re: Sub 37 Osc Variance

Re: Sub 37 Osc Variance

Re: Sub 37 Osc Variance

Re: Sub 37 Osc Variance

Re: Sub 37 Osc Variance

Re: Sub 37 Osc Variance

Re: Sub 37 Osc Variance

Re: Sub 37 Osc Variance

Re: Sub 37 Osc Variance

Re: Sub 37 Osc Variance

Re: Sub 37 Osc Variance

Re: Sub 37 Osc Variance