Sub 37 Internal Clock Instability?

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ChiLam
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Re: Sub 37 Internal Clock Instability?

Post by ChiLam » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:07 pm

Tyler wrote:
ChiLam wrote: I have not really come across any situation where you might attempt to run several sequencers together but all using their own individual clocks - is this what you want/need to do?
Thanks for the reply. In response to your parting question "is this what you want to/need to do?" Well, sort of, I guess my initial post was really aimed at sharing a remedy I found to help sync my Sub 37's arpeggiator and sequencer clock rate (that was drifting slightly) to the sequencer rate on my Arturia Moog Modular V soft synth. I was looking at the rhythmic potentials of working with these two instruments in tandem and became rather disappointed when I noticed them drifting together and then apart. Next I tried to slave the clock rate of one to the other & vice versa. This experiment (with the support of other Forum members (thanks)) was helpful but problematic on a number levels. So the idea of introducing a third party midi generated clock signal seemed promising. Now I have the result I wanted and the perk of using the MIDIClock+ is that I can set/change tempos on the fly and I can see the tempos I'm using. Whereas, previously, I could only guesstimate the tempo I was using based on the information provided by the Arp rate knob (on the Sub 37's side) and the virtual frequency rate knob (on the Arturia software interface side). Moreover, as I learned more about clock rate protocols/standards (ref., macProVideo tutorial Midi Demystified)... it was reassuring to hear from you, in knowing that I'm not alone in experiencing clock rate anomalies on the Sub 37's. Back at my initial post about the drifting issue I was kind of left with the impression that it was only my synth with this problem. Now I understand that clock rate incompatibilities in electronic devices is normal. Thanks ChiLam... your experience and feedback has been very useful.
No worries Tyler! Midi clocks can be an endless source of frustrations :wink:

If you really fancy looking at some intricate info on the subject I can reccomend heading over to the "innerclock sync-gen" website - the guy is really obsessed with the subject and feels strongly about all your devices syncing together with sample rate accuracy! Fascinating read. :D

Tyler
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Re: Sub 37 Internal Clock Instability?

Post by Tyler » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:29 am

ChiLam wrote:I can reccomend heading over to the "innerclock sync-gen" website - the guy is really obsessed with the subject and feels strongly about all your devices syncing together with sample rate accuracy! Fascinating read. :D
Thanks again... I'm curious!

electronicpoison
Posts: 68
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Location: Hamburg

Re: Sub 37 Internal Clock Instability?

Post by electronicpoison » Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:56 am

Ithe Sync gen Ii pro is really perfect.you get for hours and hours a really stabile clock Out of it. No problems ,No drifts. In my case.

Tyler
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Re: Sub 37 Internal Clock Instability?

Post by Tyler » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:38 pm

Thanks... for building on. I'll check this out... Looks pretty slick!

ChiLam
Posts: 175
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Re: Sub 37 Internal Clock Instability?

Post by ChiLam » Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:41 pm

Tyler wrote:Thanks... for building on. I'll check this out... Looks pretty slick!
I think the SND ACME-4 is the slickest :wink:

kvitekp
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Re: Sub 37 Internal Clock Instability?

Post by kvitekp » Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:57 pm

kvitekp wrote:My Sub37 with 1.0.7 firmware clock stability floats between 3 and 4%, and jumps up to 6-7% when FILTER CUTOFF knob is operated. Most hardware devices I tested have clock stability better than 1%.
I'm happy to report that Sub37 firmware gods showed their will and sent me an updated firmware v1.0.11 which greatly improves Sub37 clock stability: under the same testing conditions, the stability is now <0.2% in the entire BPM range, and it's around 0.1% in 60-140BPM range. This is better than most synths out there!

/Peter
www.midisizer.com - home of MidiALF MIDI/CV step sequencer, MidiREX MIDI Looper and more synth DIY stuff...

ChiLam
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Re: Sub 37 Internal Clock Instability?

Post by ChiLam » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:05 pm

Most impressive!

Tyler
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Re: Sub 37 Internal Clock Instability?

Post by Tyler » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:21 pm

All good news, new firmware release dates aside. I believe the Sub 37 firmware engineers are hard at it to address the bigger issues... Internal Clock Rate being an important one. In one of my inquiries to Moog about the clock instability I received an affirmation regarding improvements and priorities on this. Sounds like Moog are really going to bat for us all. That's (from this users perspective) great customer service. Thanks Sub 37 team. I can wait until you're ready to release the next quality upgrade. Great VIBE at MOOG!!!

ChiLam
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Re: Sub 37 Internal Clock Instability?

Post by ChiLam » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:34 pm

Indeed Moog are very attentive to user feedback, awesome team!

From 6-7% to less than 0.2% is a huge improvement. Around 0.1% variance at 60-140 BPM sounds very tight indeed. I'm curious now if I shouldnt slave all my devices to the 37's clock - it sounds as though it might be tighter than my MPC1000!?

gencomprodukts
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Re: Sub 37 Internal Clock Instability?

Post by gencomprodukts » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:53 am

ChiLam wrote:Indeed Moog are very attentive to user feedback, awesome team!

From 6-7% to less than 0.2% is a huge improvement. Around 0.1% variance at 60-140 BPM sounds very tight indeed. I'm curious now if I shouldnt slave all my devices to the 37's clock - it sounds as though it might be tighter than my MPC1000!?
Just to know, did you succeed to synchronize your MPC1000 as a slave with the clock of the SUB37 (master). No success with mine. I tried everything (changed the Midi parameters of the MPC to act as slave with an external midi clock) but it doesn't work when i start the S37's arppegio. Any help?
MOOG Memorymoog+, Sub 37, CP251, ROLAND SH-1, SH-2, SH-7, SH101, Juno 60, SVC350, TR808, SCI Prophet 5 Rev.3.1, KORG Mono/poly, KR55, OBERHEIM SEM, WALDORF Microwave 1, DSI Prophet 08 Desktop PE, BOSS DR-55, BassBot TT303, AKAI MPC1000 JJOS2XL.

ChiLam
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Re: Sub 37 Internal Clock Instability?

Post by ChiLam » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:06 pm

Actually, I didn't bother trying in the end. Reason being because I need my MPC as the master in my rig since it can send both Midiclock and MTC simultaneously and I need MTC for slaving Cubase.

I have managed before to slace the MPC to Cubase's midiclock before so it should work with the Sub37 too! I will give it a quick try for you now to see if I can do it and report back...

gencomprodukts
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Re: Sub 37 Internal Clock Instability?

Post by gencomprodukts » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:34 pm

ChiLam wrote:Actually, I didn't bother trying in the end. Reason being because I need my MPC as the master in my rig since it can send both Midiclock and MTC simultaneously and I need MTC for slaving Cubase.

I have managed before to slace the MPC to Cubase's midiclock before so it should work with the Sub37 too! I will give it a quick try for you now to see if I can do it and report back...
Great, thanks a lot Chilam and please share your results :wink:
Unfortunately, no success here, it seems that the MPC doesn't receive the clock of the 37.
MOOG Memorymoog+, Sub 37, CP251, ROLAND SH-1, SH-2, SH-7, SH101, Juno 60, SVC350, TR808, SCI Prophet 5 Rev.3.1, KORG Mono/poly, KR55, OBERHEIM SEM, WALDORF Microwave 1, DSI Prophet 08 Desktop PE, BOSS DR-55, BassBot TT303, AKAI MPC1000 JJOS2XL.

ChiLam
Posts: 175
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Re: Sub 37 Internal Clock Instability?

Post by ChiLam » Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:14 pm

hmm, I had a quick go but couldn't get it working yet either!? :?

I couldn't see any clock signal from the Sub37 in the MPC's midi monitor at all. Infact I couldn't see any midi data being recieved except a couple of bend and modulation messages but even these only happened once and I couldn't get it to happen again!?

I just have to put the kids to bed and then I will try again to monitor using Cubase or other. Which Firmware of the Sub37 are you using? Are you sending over USB or Din?

gencomprodukts
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Re: Sub 37 Internal Clock Instability?

Post by gencomprodukts » Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:00 pm

ChiLam wrote:hmm, I had a quick go but couldn't get it working yet either!? :?

I couldn't see any clock signal from the Sub37 in the MPC's midi monitor at all. Infact I couldn't see any midi data being recieved except a couple of bend and modulation messages but even these only happened once and I couldn't get it to happen again!?

I just have to put the kids to bed and then I will try again to monitor using Cubase or other. Which Firmware of the Sub37 are you using? Are you sending over USB or Din?
Glad (unfortunately) to see that i'm not alone. It seems that there's a bug somewhere (i guess with the midi clock of the 37 since i never had any issues with other midi equipments when controlling the MPC as slave). I'm using the last firmware (1.0.7) and i'm working only with midi jacks, not USB (i don't use DAW's). Any one with the same issue? Maybe should we send a report to Amos to get further infos on this bug.
MOOG Memorymoog+, Sub 37, CP251, ROLAND SH-1, SH-2, SH-7, SH101, Juno 60, SVC350, TR808, SCI Prophet 5 Rev.3.1, KORG Mono/poly, KR55, OBERHEIM SEM, WALDORF Microwave 1, DSI Prophet 08 Desktop PE, BOSS DR-55, BassBot TT303, AKAI MPC1000 JJOS2XL.

ChiLam
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Re: Sub 37 Internal Clock Instability?

Post by ChiLam » Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:56 pm

OK, I managed to get it working in the end :D

I was struggling for a while to get any midi data to show up anywhere from the 37 - even the lights that show activity on my midi interface (iConnectmidi4+) stayed unlit no matter what changes I made and no matter which connection I tried using (USB/DIN). No keys, knob CC's or clock seemed to be transmitted.

Then I changed preset using one of the buttons and hey presto - suddenly the MPC began to register all activity! :D

Not sure exactly why this made the difference - I was using one of my own initial presets at first - but when I went back to use my preset it continued to work with the midi being sent as it should. Seemed to just wake up the midi functions by changing to another preset.

Anyway - all working great here now. Hope this helps, let me know. :wink:

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