Sub 37 - attempted firmware update problem

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simc
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Sub 37 - attempted firmware update problem

Post by simc » Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:12 pm

Hey there guys

I've just attempted to begin a 1.01 (I've been away the past few months) firmware update on my Sub 37 in which the panel_erase load worked fine, but when I got to the _panel send C6 froze and did not come out of the freeze after 10 minutes or so. I was forced to then end-process. However now the Sub 37 displays all lights as on with the Arp Rate flashing. I've tried to enter "pitch wheel up-mode" but nothing seems to change. Is there a reset key combination that anyone knows of?

Cheers,
sim

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_DemonDan_
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Re: Sub 37 - attempted firmware update problem

Post by _DemonDan_ » Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:20 pm

Something to check...

When you send the first file, it resets the Sub 37 such that its connection to your SysEx Librarian is disconnected.

After Step 1, make sure that your SysEx Librarian is once again going to "Moog Sub 37".
_ :twisted: _DemonDan_ :twisted: _

simc
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Re: Sub 37 - attempted firmware update problem

Post by simc » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:04 am

I've given it a go, it is still connected to the 37, it even seems to show the updating of the main.syx by flashing the MIDI button red while it updates. However the screen remains blank. It feels like I may have to get it in for a service :(

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_DemonDan_
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Re: Sub 37 - attempted firmware update problem

Post by _DemonDan_ » Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:18 am

simc wrote:It feels like I may have to get it in for a service :(
Hi sim,

It's way too soon to be feeling that.

Read through the various threads of those who had similar problems and solved them by slowing down the speed of the SysEx delivery and other solutions.

Also, there's no good reason to update to v1.01. The latest, greatest rev is 1.07. There is nothing to be desired from earlier revs that isn't in the current one; and there's lots of new features and bug fixes in the current one:

http://www.moogmusic.com/sites/default/ ... v1.0.7.zip
_ :twisted: _DemonDan_ :twisted: _

simc
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Re: Sub 37 - attempted firmware update problem

Post by simc » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:25 pm

I've gone through the 1.0.7 update; however the screen remains blank throughout. It does state in the .pdf that this *can* happen up until you restart the 37 but upon restart it is still blank. I've sent a request to Moog Support hopefully they know a magic key combination or something to save me..

I do appreciate the suggestions Dan by the way :) thanks for trying to help!

meseek
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Re: Sub 37 - attempted firmware update problem

Post by meseek » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:30 am

Thank you for great information. :D

mmarsh100
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Re: Sub 37 - attempted firmware update problem

Post by mmarsh100 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:31 am

Here is a post from Amos explaining the process in detail, it may help. Also, as has been pointed out make sure that the Sub 378 is selected as the destination EACH TIME you send each of the four files:
Hi folks,

To everyone who is having update trouble, I apologize. I wrote some emails to the thread-starter on Friday, which seemed to help; I will post the same info here.

First some background information about the process.

the Step 1 sysex file is just a short command; it erases the main firmware if there is any, and puts the unit in bootloader mode, ready to accept new main firmware.

Corgy wrote:
is there something like a "reset-button" on the Sub37 ... like, hold down "key-what-ever-the-combi-might-be" at "power on"?


There is something like a hard-reset for firmware update, which does the same thing as the Step 1 sysex... you turn the Fine Tune and Filter Cutoff knobs both to zero, and then hold the Pitch Bend wheel up (in its maximum bend-up position) while turning on the power. If you do this, then instead of booting normally the unit will boot up to the bootloader, erasing the main firmware if it was present, and will then be ready to accept the main firmware. (this means you can skip sending step 1 if you boot up in this special way)

The step 2 sysex file is the main firmware.

Step 3 and Step 4 comprise the panel firmware. Step 3 is a short command which erases the old panel firmware, if it's present, and sets up the system to receive the new panel firmware. Step 4 is the panel firmware. A small note, the system definitely will not accept Step 4 unless you've just sent Step 3 beforehand. I've made the mistake of restarting the Sub 37 and trying to send Step 4 by itself; this doesn't work, but restarting the unit and sending step 3, then step 4, is OK.

Next I would like to describe what the update process looks like, step by step, in the case where it has already failed and you are trying to get back on track.

First, sending step 1 (or booting using the manual procedure decribed above):
Normally you should see the MIDI LED blink on/off three times, and then go out… this means that the main firmware was probably installed correctly when you sent Step 1. The three blinks means it’s erasing main firmware. If there is not main firmware, then you will only see one red LED blink on sending step 1.

After sending step 1, the MIDI LED should be off (or yellow; the red MIDI LED will be off) and the Arpeggiator Rate LED will be blinking on/off at a medium rate.

Sending step 2:
The red MIDI LED blinks on and off at a medium speed, just a little faster than the Arp Rate LED. So, both these LEDs are blinking, out of sync. When the transfer is finished, all the panel LEDs flicker off for a moment, then all are lit again… red MIDI LED is lit solid, Arp Rate LED is blinking a little faster than before.

Sending step 3:
The Arp Rate LED pauses for an instant, and then blinks a lot faster than before. MIDI LED doesn’t do anything, it’s still solid red.

Sending step 4:
Now the red MIDI LED is blinking on/off again, quickly… faster than the Arp Rate LED… the MIDI LED begins blinking on/off as soon as the step 4 sending begins, and it continues to blink on/off through the whole sending process. Again the Arp Rate LED and MIDI LED should both be blinking but out of sync.

When step 4 is finished, the synth restarts and looks normal again, with LCD and everything working.

If the red MIDI LED stops blinking while the step 4 transfer is still happening, or if the MIDI LED and the Arp Rate LED start flashing on/off in sync with each other (both on/off at the same time) then this indicates a transfer error.

If both LEDs are blinking in sync after step 2… that suggests that actually step 2 is failing.
This means that the sub 37 is never loading its main code completely.

If that’s what is happening, it explains also why the panel update (steps 3 and 4) are not working.
The main code must be running, before the panel can be updated.

There is a bootloader on the main board, which is the thing that is running during step 1 and step 2.
This bootloader can accept a main firmware update, but it can’t do the panel firmware update by itself; main code update must happen successfully first.

OK, sorry for the long post... if you have read this far, there is a payoff :)

Here is a download which contains a re-packed version of Sub 37 firmware v1.0.6.
http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/su ... adding.zip

For Windows users, you can try the step 1-4 .exe files. These executable files will launch a simple automatic sysex-sending utility; the file will send automatically or you may need to type a number to select Sub 37, and then press Enter to send.

Step 1-4 sysex files are also included.

The other main difference with the files above is that step 4 is a larger file than before, because we added some padding to the data as an extra way to slow down the process. If your update process is failing at step 4, the hope is that this new step 4 with padding will work better. Try it and let me know.

All the best,

Amos
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simc
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Re: Sub 37 - attempted firmware update problem

Post by simc » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:20 am


There is something like a hard-reset for firmware update, which does the same thing as the Step 1 sysex... you turn the Fine Tune and Filter Cutoff knobs both to zero, and then hold the Pitch Bend wheel up (in its maximum bend-up position) while turning on the power. If you do this, then instead of booting normally the unit will boot up to the bootloader, erasing the main firmware if it was present, and will then be ready to accept the main firmware. (this means you can skip sending step 1 if you boot up in this special way)

The step 2 sysex file is the main firmware.

Step 3 and Step 4 comprise the panel firmware. Step 3 is a short command which erases the old panel firmware, if it's present, and sets up the system to receive the new panel firmware. Step 4 is the panel firmware. A small note, the system definitely will not accept Step 4 unless you've just sent Step 3 beforehand. I've made the mistake of restarting the Sub 37 and trying to send Step 4 by itself; this doesn't work, but restarting the unit and sending step 3, then step 4, is OK.

Next I would like to describe what the update process looks like, step by step, in the case where it has already failed and you are trying to get back on track.

First, sending step 1 (or booting using the manual procedure decribed above):
Normally you should see the MIDI LED blink on/off three times, and then go out… this means that the main firmware was probably installed correctly when you sent Step 1. The three blinks means it’s erasing main firmware. If there is not main firmware, then you will only see one red LED blink on sending step 1.

After sending step 1, the MIDI LED should be off (or yellow; the red MIDI LED will be off) and the Arpeggiator Rate LED will be blinking on/off at a medium rate.

Sending step 2:
The red MIDI LED blinks on and off at a medium speed, just a little faster than the Arp Rate LED. So, both these LEDs are blinking, out of sync. When the transfer is finished, all the panel LEDs flicker off for a moment, then all are lit again… red MIDI LED is lit solid, Arp Rate LED is blinking a little faster than before.

Sending step 3:
The Arp Rate LED pauses for an instant, and then blinks a lot faster than before. MIDI LED doesn’t do anything, it’s still solid red.

Sending step 4:
Now the red MIDI LED is blinking on/off again, quickly… faster than the Arp Rate LED… the MIDI LED begins blinking on/off as soon as the step 4 sending begins, and it continues to blink on/off through the whole sending process. Again the Arp Rate LED and MIDI LED should both be blinking but out of sync.

When step 4 is finished, the synth restarts and looks normal again, with LCD and everything working.

If the red MIDI LED stops blinking while the step 4 transfer is still happening, or if the MIDI LED and the Arp Rate LED start flashing on/off in sync with each other (both on/off at the same time) then this indicates a transfer error.


etc
So. To begin; I have attempted the pitch up+fine tune, filter wheel anticlockwise but it doesn't seem to have any effect on the 37, at the very beginning of the boot the MIDI light flashes 1-3 times and then the ARP rate light flashes once per second after the MIDI light has stopped flashing; however all lights on the panel remain lit and the screen remains blank.

I am able to proceed (I think) with the update (1.0.7 in this case as the above file has been removed); the MIDI and ARP rate lights flash at the correct speed as Amos describes and stop when he describes, however once I reach step 4 instead of any flashing lights both the MIDI and Rate freeze.
After an amount of time the MIDI begins flashing red again along with the ARP rate, approximately 3 times per second, in unison, however the display still remains blank and all the lights on the panel remain lit.
At this point I have of course attempted a simple restart with no change occurring. When I boot the 37 back up the Rate flashes ~2 times p/s and the MIDI light is a fixed red. The display unfortunately remains blank and all other lights remain on.

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breun
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Re: Sub 37 - attempted firmware update problem

Post by breun » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:29 am

Have you contacted Moog support yet? http://www.moogmusic.com/support

simc
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Re: Sub 37 - attempted firmware update problem

Post by simc » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:36 am

breun wrote:Have you contacted Moog support yet? http://www.moogmusic.com/support
I contacted them a couple of days ago; still waiting for a response, I'm hopeful!

Goran
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Re: Sub 37 - attempted firmware update problem

Post by Goran » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:15 pm

Hi there folks.

I also have tried to upgrade it to 1.0.7, and I'm sort of stuck. I have configured the MIDI OX as it is instructed in the accompanying PDF... but when I sent the sub37_1_0_7_step1 file it didn't flash the MIDI-led.

And now it just says "Flash erased. Ready for code", but nothing happens when I send the other files. No flashing or anything saying that it actually receives data.

Yes, I have checked so the SUB 37 is the chosen device in MIDI OX. I tried to restart with the Filter and Fine tune to zero and pitch wheel at max... but still no go.

So ...I might be doing something really wrong here, but I have no idea what it could be.
I have also sent this to Moog support.

djremedy
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Re: Sub 37 - attempted firmware update problem

Post by djremedy » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:39 pm

Goran wrote:Hi there folks.

I also have tried to upgrade it to 1.0.7, and I'm sort of stuck. I have configured the MIDI OX as it is instructed in the accompanying PDF... but when I sent the sub37_1_0_7_step1 file it didn't flash the MIDI-led.

And now it just says "Flash erased. Ready for code", but nothing happens when I send the other files. No flashing or anything saying that it actually receives data.

Yes, I have checked so the SUB 37 is the chosen device in MIDI OX. I tried to restart with the Filter and Fine tune to zero and pitch wheel at max... but still no go.

So ...I might be doing something really wrong here, but I have no idea what it could be.
I have also sent this to Moog support.
I am having the exact same problem. No midi light flash after the first file, and the other files seem to do nothing at all. It never resets, and it seems to be just stuck on 'Ready for Code'.

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_DemonDan_
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Re: Sub 37 - attempted firmware update problem

Post by _DemonDan_ » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:13 am

I don't have a PC to read MIDI OX's parameters but, look for any parameters that let you slow down the transmission rate and add a specified number of milliseconds in between each message.

I have personally seen the above two things make the difference between updating and not updating for many devices, including the Sub 37.
_ :twisted: _DemonDan_ :twisted: _

Sihaz
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Re: Sub 37 - attempted firmware update problem

Post by Sihaz » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:14 pm

Goran wrote:Hi there folks.

I also have tried to upgrade it to 1.0.7, and I'm sort of stuck. I have configured the MIDI OX as it is instructed in the accompanying PDF... but when I sent the sub37_1_0_7_step1 file it didn't flash the MIDI-led.

And now it just says "Flash erased. Ready for code", but nothing happens when I send the other files. No flashing or anything saying that it actually receives data.

Yes, I have checked so the SUB 37 is the chosen device in MIDI OX. I tried to restart with the Filter and Fine tune to zero and pitch wheel at max... but still no go.

So ...I might be doing something really wrong here, but I have no idea what it could be.
I have also sent this to Moog support.
I had this problem with midox, but it was fine with c6...

djremedy
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Re: Sub 37 - attempted firmware update problem

Post by djremedy » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:33 am

Sihaz wrote: I had this problem with midox, but it was fine with c6...
You are the MAN! C6 works GREAT! MIDI light is flashing like it is supposed to, it reboots at the end of the even-numbered steps. I got my 37 back!! :D :D

Thank you so much!

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