Moog Sub 37 - is it analog, digital or hybrid?

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Blackout
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Re: Moog Sub 37 - is it analog, digital or hybrid?

Post by Blackout » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:13 am

To me, the Sub37 is analog also.

i just think the Sub37 was short-changed with that "hybrid" description in SOS though.

but i get your point Amos, the review (and front page) was hugely positive and to argue semantics with the SOS Editor over one line will do Moog no favours im sure. its a very small circle in the industry.

however one of the things i do like about old analog synths is the fact that no two keyboard presses of the same note in succession sound the same. And part of that is the fact that the envelopes have that small degree of constant randomness and fluctuation that comes from analog circuitry. its most obvious in attacks...running a tight row of 16ths notes and you hear this tiny but natural movement in attack and sustain times, etc. Can you elaborate on the digital envelopes Amos, is there some special "code" in the Sub series that adds a degree of randomness and movement? i mean...i hear something going on to some degree. its definitely not "stiff' like a sampler envelope...but possibly not quite as sloppy as some other classic synths envelopes either

Cheers,
Blackout.

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stiiiiiiive
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Re: Moog Sub 37 - is it analog, digital or hybrid?

Post by stiiiiiiive » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:07 am

psynthetic wrote:otherwise there is always the Voyager Old School. :wink:

...whose keyboard scanning is digital ;)
Just pulling a leg here. The Voyager Old School has a real analogue feel.

psynthetic
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Re: Moog Sub 37 - is it analog, digital or hybrid?

Post by psynthetic » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:17 pm

No, no, by all means hold me accountable :lol:

GregVDS
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Re: Moog Sub 37 - is it analog, digital or hybrid?

Post by GregVDS » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:36 am

Absolutely great info to read here :-).

I'm waiting more eagerly than ever my Sub 37 now.

Thanks Moog/Amos to answer to these questions.

Greg

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Mantrak
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Re: Moog Sub 37 - is it analog, digital or hybrid?

Post by Mantrak » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:52 pm

Blackout wrote:what particially has grinded in my crotch recently was the marketing spin around the Dave Smith Prophet 12, where the phrase "analogue synth" was used just one too many times. And indeed it turned out it had digital oscillators. and then later they said "oh when we said analogue we were just referring to the filter...' personally i felt lied to.


I feel NOW as lied to. Dave Smith was and is very, very clear about P12 having digital oscillators. DSI is far from hiding it, as a matter of fact they are pushing DCO's as an advantage and as a key P12 feature. P12 is described using "hybrid" as keyword.

Dave Smith is legendary for NOT being analog purist. That does not prevent him to use the word "analog" where it is justified, does it?

ChiLam
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Re: Moog Sub 37 - is it analog, digital or hybrid?

Post by ChiLam » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:18 pm

Mantrak wrote:
Blackout wrote:what particially has grinded in my crotch recently was the marketing spin around the Dave Smith Prophet 12, where the phrase "analogue synth" was used just one too many times. And indeed it turned out it had digital oscillators. and then later they said "oh when we said analogue we were just referring to the filter...' personally i felt lied to.


I feel NOW as lied to. Dave Smith was and is very, very clear about P12 having digital oscillators. DSI is far from hiding it, as a matter of fact they are pushing DCO's as an advantage and as a key P12 feature. P12 is described using "hybrid" as keyword.

Dave Smith is legendary for NOT being analog purist. That does not prevent him to use the word "analog" where it is justified, does it?


I don't have any particular feelings toward Dave Smith or his instruments - I haven't had the pleasure but they are obviously very popular in most circles - but I'm sitting here with the latest March 2015 copy of SoundonSound looking at the full page advert for the Prophet12 and Pro2 and the only mention of anything being digital on either synth is the "digital delay". Whilst "hiding it" or "lying" might surely be a bit extreme the advert clearly avoids any reference to the oscillators being digital whilst at the same time refering to the analogue nature of the filters and distortion.

The cynic in me would have to conclude that its evidently not a feature which is being "pushed" as an advantage or key feature since it is not given any mention at all in the marketing. The term "hybrid" also is nowhere to be found. If I did not know better, based on the advert I would guess the synth had analogue osc's.

I have seen a couple of clips from NAMM 2015 where Dave was asked about the oscillators and to be honest he did seem rather grumpy in his response and quite dismissive of those who employ analogue oscillators - i think he actually said "that would be stupid"!. I do remember thinking it was pretty strange he held such a strong opinion against their use since the Pro 6 has VCO's IIRC.

Either way, I'm sure he's not being deliberatley misleading about anything, and I'm sure they must be great works of engineering, all i'm saying is it's not neccesarily obvious based on the marketing whether these PRO's have VCO's, DCO's or Digital Oscillators. :wink:

vinnyburns
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Re: Moog Sub 37 - is it analog, digital or hybrid?

Post by vinnyburns » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:05 am

I can't see too many people laying out the sort of money for a pro 12 without checking more than an advert in SOS and a few words from Dave Smith :-)
I don't own a pro 12 but I do own a pro 08 and I knew pretty much everything about that synth before buying it. Same with my Minitaur and Sub 37.

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Mantrak
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Re: Moog Sub 37 - is it analog, digital or hybrid?

Post by Mantrak » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:00 pm

Exactly.

Haven't seen that ad, no link. So let's take a look where it counts the most:

http://www.davesmithinstruments.com/

And here:

http://www.davesmithinstruments.com/all-products/

No comment really necessary. Dave is proud of his digital oscillators and I think he has every reason to be.

ChiLam
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Re: Moog Sub 37 - is it analog, digital or hybrid?

Post by ChiLam » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:52 pm

vinnyburns wrote:I can't see too many people laying out the sort of money for a pro 12 without checking more than an advert in SOS and a few words from Dave Smith :-)
I don't own a pro 12 but I do own a pro 08 and I knew pretty much everything about that synth before buying it. Same with my Minitaur and Sub 37.


Yep, completely agree with everything you say, can't argue with that - wasn't trying to do so either! :D

ChiLam
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Re: Moog Sub 37 - is it analog, digital or hybrid?

Post by ChiLam » Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:23 pm

Mantrak wrote:Exactly.

Haven't seen that ad, no link. So let's take a look where it counts the most:

http://www.davesmithinstruments.com/

And here:

http://www.davesmithinstruments.com/all-products/

No comment really necessary. Dave is proud of his digital oscillators and I think he has every reason to be.


Your absolutely correct, I 100% agree - Dave should be proud of his stuff and his website does indeed make it very very clear that the Pro12 is a hybrid with digital oscillators. :D

I'm just saying that the ones I had seen are quite different to those in the links you posted.

Sure, the adverts in magazines or elsewhere might not count for much, but If you did see them I'm pretty sure you would agree that they are not clear about the specs of the oscs. I'm not attacking Dave and his products at all, I'm certain I would be overjoyed if I could own some of them, just simply stating that the marketing can and obviously does sometimes take different approaches in different areas and that a person could be forgiven in those circumsatances for not understanding the truth about the product.

Blackout
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Re: Moog Sub 37 - is it analog, digital or hybrid?

Post by Blackout » Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:46 am

at least he can say "analog" about his new Prophet 6 and ...well no arguments here! what a massive synth that is going to be in the history of synthesizers.

batter up Moog. wheres your analog poly?

vinnyburns
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Re: Moog Sub 37 - is it analog, digital or hybrid?

Post by vinnyburns » Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:08 am

Blackout wrote:at least he can say "analog" about his new Prophet 6 and ...well no arguments here! what a massive synth that is going to be in the history of synthesizers.

batter up Moog. wheres your analog poly?


Shame it is an octave short :-(

ChiLam
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Re: Moog Sub 37 - is it analog, digital or hybrid?

Post by ChiLam » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:48 am

vinnyburns wrote:
Blackout wrote:at least he can say "analog" about his new Prophet 6 and ...well no arguments here! what a massive synth that is going to be in the history of synthesizers.

batter up Moog. wheres your analog poly?


Shame it is an octave short :-(


Good point - only 5 more keys than the Mono synth!

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