Moog Sub 37 fw update 1.0.6 failed

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BorisYeltsin
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Re: Moog Sub 37 fw update 1.0.6 failed

Post by BorisYeltsin » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:01 pm

dancard wrote:Tried rebooting, and have nothing plugged into my MBP except 1 usb cable to Sub 37.

No other applications running except Sysex Librarian.

Ran transfer at 50% speed, as suggested. Still fails at the same point in step 4.

Currently, all LEDS are on, screen is blank, and ARP RATE and MIDI LEDs blink together quickly.

AMOS, IF YOU'RE OUT THERE, PLEASE HELP! :?: :?: :?:


Did you try with Elektron C6? When updating my Sub 37 the update failed at step3, and the "symptoms" you describe appeared. I turned of the Sub 37, restarted PC and tried again. Worked fine the second time.

How many times have you tried? Maybe if you try a few times it will succeed.

BorisYeltsin
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Re: Moog Sub 37 fw update 1.0.6 failed

Post by BorisYeltsin » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:04 pm

dancard wrote:So, it appears that there is no workaround for my situation.

I need to send my Sub37 back to Moog to replace a faulty component in the panel. :(


Are you sure there's something faulty? Anyway, hope it get fixed soon enough and that get you up and running.

RK81
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Re: Moog Sub 37 fw update 1.0.6 failed

Post by RK81 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:17 pm

Just got an RMA for my Sub 37 as well.

I'll be shipping it back for repairs today.

Amos
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Re: Moog Sub 37 fw update 1.0.6 failed

Post by Amos » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:15 pm

Hi folks,

To everyone who is having update trouble, I apologize. I wrote some emails to the thread-starter on Friday, which seemed to help; I will post the same info here.

First some background information about the process.

the Step 1 sysex file is just a short command; it erases the main firmware if there is any, and puts the unit in bootloader mode, ready to accept new main firmware.

Corgy wrote:is there something like a "reset-button" on the Sub37 ... like, hold down "key-what-ever-the-combi-might-be" at "power on"?


There is something like a hard-reset for firmware update, which does the same thing as the Step 1 sysex... you turn the Fine Tune and Filter Cutoff knobs both to zero, and then hold the Pitch Bend wheel up (in its maximum bend-up position) while turning on the power. If you do this, then instead of booting normally the unit will boot up to the bootloader, erasing the main firmware if it was present, and will then be ready to accept the main firmware. (this means you can skip sending step 1 if you boot up in this special way)

The step 2 sysex file is the main firmware.

Step 3 and Step 4 comprise the panel firmware. Step 3 is a short command which erases the old panel firmware, if it's present, and sets up the system to receive the new panel firmware. Step 4 is the panel firmware. A small note, the system definitely will not accept Step 4 unless you've just sent Step 3 beforehand. I've made the mistake of restarting the Sub 37 and trying to send Step 4 by itself; this doesn't work, but restarting the unit and sending step 3, then step 4, is OK.

Next I would like to describe what the update process looks like, step by step, in the case where it has already failed and you are trying to get back on track.

First, sending step 1 (or booting using the manual procedure decribed above):
Normally you should see the MIDI LED blink on/off three times, and then go out… this means that the main firmware was probably installed correctly when you sent Step 1. The three blinks means it’s erasing main firmware. If there is not main firmware, then you will only see one red LED blink on sending step 1.

After sending step 1, the MIDI LED should be off (or yellow; the red MIDI LED will be off) and the Arpeggiator Rate LED will be blinking on/off at a medium rate.

Sending step 2:
The red MIDI LED blinks on and off at a medium speed, just a little faster than the Arp Rate LED. So, both these LEDs are blinking, out of sync. When the transfer is finished, all the panel LEDs flicker off for a moment, then all are lit again… red MIDI LED is lit solid, Arp Rate LED is blinking a little faster than before.

Sending step 3:
The Arp Rate LED pauses for an instant, and then blinks a lot faster than before. MIDI LED doesn’t do anything, it’s still solid red.

Sending step 4:
Now the red MIDI LED is blinking on/off again, quickly… faster than the Arp Rate LED… the MIDI LED begins blinking on/off as soon as the step 4 sending begins, and it continues to blink on/off through the whole sending process. Again the Arp Rate LED and MIDI LED should both be blinking but out of sync.

When step 4 is finished, the synth restarts and looks normal again, with LCD and everything working.

If the red MIDI LED stops blinking while the step 4 transfer is still happening, or if the MIDI LED and the Arp Rate LED start flashing on/off in sync with each other (both on/off at the same time) then this indicates a transfer error.

If both LEDs are blinking in sync after step 2… that suggests that actually step 2 is failing.
This means that the sub 37 is never loading its main code completely.

If that’s what is happening, it explains also why the panel update (steps 3 and 4) are not working.
The main code must be running, before the panel can be updated.

There is a bootloader on the main board, which is the thing that is running during step 1 and step 2.
This bootloader can accept a main firmware update, but it can’t do the panel firmware update by itself; main code update must happen successfully first.

OK, sorry for the long post... if you have read this far, there is a payoff :)

Here is a download which contains a re-packed version of Sub 37 firmware v1.0.6.
http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/su ... adding.zip

For Windows users, you can try the step 1-4 .exe files. These executable files will launch a simple automatic sysex-sending utility; the file will send automatically or you may need to type a number to select Sub 37, and then press Enter to send.

Step 1-4 sysex files are also included.

The other main difference with the files above is that step 4 is a larger file than before, because we added some padding to the data as an extra way to slow down the process. If your update process is failing at step 4, the hope is that this new step 4 with padding will work better. Try it and let me know.

All the best,

Amos

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_DemonDan_
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Re: Moog Sub 37 fw update 1.0.6 failed

Post by _DemonDan_ » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:22 pm

A key thing that I didn't see mentioned above (which may/may not be an issue anymore) is:

After some of the steps (when the Sub 37 resets itself), the sysex librarian may lose USB MIDI connection with the Sub 37.

So you need to make sure that your transmitting software is clearly going to "Moog Sub 37" each time the Sub 37 resets itself.

I strongly suspect that this is one of the main culprits when folks can't seem to get to the next step.

... At least check to be sure.
_ :twisted: _DemonDan_ :twisted: _

kvitekp
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Re: Moog Sub 37 fw update 1.0.6 failed

Post by kvitekp » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:33 pm

Hi Amos -- thank you for explaining all those details! Understanding the process helps to build confidence.

Couple of questions:

1. Are we correct to assume that under no conditions sending firmware sysexes to Sub37 may cause bootloader code to be destroyed?

2. If "firmware" step 2 or 4 fails, should we re-start from "erasing" step 1 and 2 first, or it is OK to just repeat step 2 or 4 ?

/Peter
www.midisizer.com - home of MidiALF MIDI/CV step sequencer, MidiREX MIDI Looper and more synth DIY stuff...

kvitekp
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Re: Moog Sub 37 fw update 1.0.6 failed

Post by kvitekp » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:38 pm

_DemonDan_ wrote:A key thing that I didn't see mentioned above (which may/may not be an issue anymore) is:

After some of the steps (when the Sub 37 resets itself), the sysex librarian may lose USB MIDI connection with the Sub 37.

So you need to make sure that your transmitting software is clearly going to "Moog Sub 37" each time the Sub 37 resets itself.

I strongly suspect that this is one of the main culprits when folks can't seem to get to the next step.

... At least check to be sure.


Yeah, this could very much be the reason! If the device driver is stolen from the Windows MIDI subsystem, in the latter will behave erratically if you try to access that device later.

This may explain why my updates went so smoothly -- i'm using a console utility which sends one sysex file at a time, so it always opens/close MIDI device for the run.

/Peter
www.midisizer.com - home of MidiALF MIDI/CV step sequencer, MidiREX MIDI Looper and more synth DIY stuff...

Amos
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Re: Moog Sub 37 fw update 1.0.6 failed

Post by Amos » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:01 pm

kvitekp wrote:Hi Amos -- thank you for explaining all those details! Understanding the process helps to build confidence.

Couple of questions:

1. Are we correct to assume that under no conditions sending firmware sysexes to Sub37 may cause bootloader code to be destroyed?

2. If "firmware" step 2 or 4 fails, should we re-start from "erasing" step 1 and 2 first, or it is OK to just repeat step 2 or 4 ?

/Peter


1. Correct, the bootloader is permanently installed on the Sub 37 and is not altered or affected by any part of the firmware-sending process.

2. If step 2 fails, you can probably cycle the power to the Sub 37 and just send step 2 again... if there's no main firmware then the unit will start up in bootloader mode (ready for main firmware) automatically. If step 4 fails, to repeat you must send step 3 again and then step 4. Always send step 3 before sending step 4.

We couldn't just put steps 3 and 4 together in one file, because in a normal update the Sub 37 has to spend a few seconds erasing the old panel firmware in response to step 3, before it is ready to receive the new panel firmware contained in step 4. In the case where Step 4 has failed previously, then Step 3 is basically instant, because there's nothing to erase.

Corgy
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Re: Moog Sub 37 fw update 1.0.6 failed

Post by Corgy » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:36 pm

_DemonDan_ wrote:A key thing that I didn't see mentioned above (which may/may not be an issue anymore) is:

After some of the steps (when the Sub 37 resets itself), the sysex librarian may lose USB MIDI connection with the Sub 37.

So you need to make sure that your transmitting software is clearly going to "Moog Sub 37" each time the Sub 37 resets itself.

I strongly suspect that this is one of the main culprits when folks can't seem to get to the next step.

... At least check to be sure.


Exactly this was my problem during updating to V 1.0.4. It took some minutes and head scratching before I checking the midi-port, which had obviously changed from Sub37 to something different.

Corgy
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Re: Moog Sub 37 fw update 1.0.6 failed

Post by Corgy » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:41 pm

Amos wrote:There is something like a hard-reset for firmware update, which does the same thing as the Step 1 sysex... you turn the Fine Tune and Filter Cutoff knobs both to zero, and then hold the Pitch Bend wheel up (in its maximum bend-up position) while turning on the power. If you do this, then instead of booting normally the unit will boot up to the bootloader, erasing the main firmware if it was present, and will then be ready to accept the main firmware. (this means you can skip sending step 1 if you boot up in this special way)



Amos, thank you so much for clarification and explaining the process in depth. Highly appreciated.

It's good to know that there is a way out or a "plan B", if something goes wrong with the update.

0netwo0netwo
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Re: Moog Sub 37 fw update 1.0.6 failed

Post by 0netwo0netwo » Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:41 am

my step 4 failed

the arp and midi lights are blinking on/off in sync so as amos stated im in a transfer error

how do i proceed

do i turn off the Sub37?

do i click Stop! on the C6 window??

hopefully i can get a reply with proper instructions soon, i dont want it to get bricked i had that happen to my little phatty earlier this year and it was not a fun experience sending it away

please help me get through this safely someone

thank you

mrberger
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Re: Moog Sub 37 fw update 1.0.6 failed

Post by mrberger » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:13 pm

... with great hesitation and trepidation, I held my nose and took the plunge ....
The update installed smooth as silk. :D Which for me was a tremendous accomplishment as I am a total newb at using C6 as a firmware update tool. But I must give a huge thanks to Amos' previous post with the step by step explanations. That allowed me to proceed with a much higher degree of confidence.

Running Win 7 64 bit.

Progocell
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Re: Moog Sub 37 fw update 1.0.6 failed

Post by Progocell » Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:03 pm

Hello,

i have the same problem like Dancard. Fw update is ok for step 1-2-3 and the sub 37 restart at step 2, but he failed at step 4, the display has been blank and MIDI & ARP rate arppegiator are blinking together. he doesn't restart..
What can i do ? I don't want to turn off the moog, because i don't want the sub 37 crash after and doesn't reboot...

Thanks!

Corgy
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Re: Moog Sub 37 fw update 1.0.6 failed

Post by Corgy » Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:16 am

Progocell wrote:Hello,

i have the same problem like Dancard. Fw update is ok for step 1-2-3 and the sub 37 restart at step 2, but he failed at step 4, the display has been blank and MIDI & ARP rate arppegiator are blinking together. he doesn't restart..
What can i do ? I don't want to turn off the moog, because i don't want the sub 37 crash after and doesn't reboot...

Thanks!


If you feel stucked, try the method described by Amos (18.11.14) of this thread.

Progocell
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Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:57 pm

Re: Moog Sub 37 fw update 1.0.6 failed

Post by Progocell » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:03 am

it's the same problem with the return on step3 + step4, i can't do nothing, i'm really stucked. now, all lights are turning on and ARP rate is blinking, and display is blank. My sub 37 doesn't respond.

Why moog doesn't implement a personal solution for updating firmware (not c6 elektron), in one step? a good solution, simple, efficace like SSD, motherboards, phone.

how can I reset my moog sub 37? (keys combo and procedure). anyone is Moog's technician here?

thanks

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