Moog Sub 37 hangs when receiving DAW - midi

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Marten
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:49 pm

Moog Sub 37 hangs when receiving DAW - midi

Post by Marten » Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:01 pm

Hi Guys,

First let me thank you for this absolutely wonderful instrument. It's superb! However I have a serious problem that I can't figure out. First I thought it was the DAW - Cubase 5 - or the midi-interface, but I'm not so sure anymore.

My SUB 37 hangs and screams when receiving note-midi from the DAW. While locked it allows for program change but the oscillators just wont turn off. They can however be turned off by "dubble-pressing" the octave buttons.

It does accept accept midi-thru notes coming from my King Korg (master klav) via Cubase without any problem.

But as soon as it recieves midi-data from a miditrack - even during recording via the KK - in Cubase, it shoots through the roof. (This also happens if the notes are written in by hand and not via the master klav). Hence there must be some problem with the SUB37 and accepting transport midi from C5.

I've played around with local control off etc but no change in in these settings affects anything of the existing problem. Also tried around in the midi-filter settings in C5 but also without any success in resolving the problem.

The C5 seem to work fine with most of my other gear - though I had a strange C5 related freeze in my KK some week ago - and the SUB 37 accepts for example midi data from an external seq like the Doepfer Dark Time without problem as far as I can tell.

All in all this is of course a huge problem. What could it be? (I still havent written the interface nor the DAW off completely.)

sincerely,
Marten E.
Last edited by Marten on Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Trooper
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:33 am

Re: Moog Sub 37 hangs when receiving DAW - midi

Post by Trooper » Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:23 pm

Yes, this behavior, freezing and lots more midi faults...look to get the V1.04 there the midi faults are (mostly) fixed and it is useable with a DAW.

(for any reason they deleted the V1.04 from the downloads of the webside, but it is still there, perhaps someone can send you the link via PN, i dont have it, sorry)

Marten
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:49 pm

Re: Moog Sub 37 hangs when receiving DAW - midi

Post by Marten » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:55 am

Thx for input! Already do have the 1.04 though! :/
Trooper wrote:Yes, this behavior, freezing and lots more midi faults...look to get the V1.04 there the midi faults are (mostly) fixed and it is useable with a DAW.

(for any reason they deleted the V1.04 from the downloads of the webside, but it is still there, perhaps someone can send you the link via PN, i dont have it, sorry)

Marten
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:49 pm

Re: Moog Sub 37 hangs when receiving DAW - midi

Post by Marten » Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:58 am

Really would love some input, or thoughts from MOOG, on this one because, my 37 just don't work in the DAW-environment.

Some adition to the info:

When playbacking a track from the transport in Cubase 5 the MIDI-led on the Sub37 lights up continuosly and stays that way. It does not blink as it is supposed to - hence the 37 seem to get too much midi-information (after the first note is played), or can't handle it in some way. I've tried to uptade to 1.04 a second time and for what I can see the firmware update works fine.

If I stop the transport the red light goes of, but it goes on again if I press play EVEN if there are no more midinotes in the track. Hoever at this point the 37 is already dead silent or going berzerk in the oscillators.

sincerely,
M

Amos
Posts: 2438
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Moog Sub 37 hangs when receiving DAW - midi

Post by Amos » Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:28 pm

sounds very much like a MIDI loop. There was definitely a bug in earlier firmware which could cause some MIDI feedback to occur, but that is fixed in v1.0.4. There are other ways to create MIDI loops, though.

For example, do you have ECHO USB IN or ECHO DIN IN turned on (in the MIDI Menu, 2.3 & 2.4)? Is Cubase echoing MIDI from the Sub 37 back to the Sub 37? It probably is, if you are recording and possibly when playing back... in this case maybe try turning off Local Control on the Sub 37.

Let's look into these things, and determine if there is something the synth is doing wrong or if it's just something we need to change about your setup.

Cheers,

Amos

Marten
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:49 pm

Re: Moog Sub 37 hangs when receiving DAW - midi

Post by Marten » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:22 pm

Hi there Amos,

Thanks for the reply!


***


The second part (below) of this post is no longer valid. Today saturday I have moved around some things, installed a trial-version of Cubase 7 on another computer. On this setup the 37 works fine over USB and over the MIDI-interface. Earlier today I also managed to get the 37 to listen on USB without freeze on the old setup, however i didn't manage to get it to send midi over USB.

The most probable cause of my problems seem to be an old computer (it is) or a corrupt Cubase 5 (might be) - or both - in the studio setup. I will have to look into that then. (Or that the problem still is on the side of the 37, though less probable at this point perhaps, it is still a bit strange though because the the sent midi-signal should be the same - right?)

It still behaves kind of strange though ... after some more work, as an example the 37 doesn't handle its own midinfo very well. A miditrack recorded from masterkey or by hand, now seem to worrk nicely, but note info (with the mass of midi info the 37 sends) recorded from the 37 itself it doesn't like - it sounds strange when sent back to the 37 from C5.

Meanwhile, thanks for your effort!

Marten / Sweden


***







Setup: Master Keyboard (King Korg) -> USB MIDI-interface -> Cubase 5 -> USB MIDI-interface -> Kenton Thru 5 midisplitter -> Sub 37

There is only MIDI in (DIN) connected on the 37.

Settings a few minutes ago: All ECHO is set to off, all local control also set to off.

Problem stays the same! Don't think there is much room for MIDI-loops unfortunately :/ - unless something very strange is going on inside C5 that cause the 37 to freeze.

(I've also tried with the MIDI-interface linked directly to the 37, but no change)

sincerely,
Marten

Amos wrote:sounds very much like a MIDI loop. There was definitely a bug in earlier firmware which could cause some MIDI feedback to occur, but that is fixed in v1.0.4. There are other ways to create MIDI loops, though.

For example, do you have ECHO USB IN or ECHO DIN IN turned on (in the MIDI Menu, 2.3 & 2.4)? Is Cubase echoing MIDI from the Sub 37 back to the Sub 37? It probably is, if you are recording and possibly when playing back... in this case maybe try turning off Local Control on the Sub 37.

Let's look into these things, and determine if there is something the synth is doing wrong or if it's just something we need to change about your setup.

Cheers,

Amos
Last edited by Marten on Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:57 am, edited 5 times in total.

artofnois
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:24 pm

Re: Moog Sub 37 hangs when receiving DAW - midi

Post by artofnois » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:35 am

I tried yerterday (I have my sub37 for a week ) for the first time to use my Sub37 with a DAW.
I can't believe Moog sold a synth that hung on midi time receiving.... (being Sb37 in Internal or external, no matter)
Firmware version 1.0.4 installed.
How can I record midi sequences from sub-37 in Logic or Ableton if the sub-37 drive fool?
Nothing in Moog testing software team use a DAW?

artofnois
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:24 pm

Re: Moog Sub 37 hangs when receiving DAW - midi

Post by artofnois » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:36 pm

More information. Maybe this can help somebody:
If you select in the DAW only send midi clock but NO MTC (Midi time code) the sub-37 don't hung

Amos
Posts: 2438
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Moog Sub 37 hangs when receiving DAW - midi

Post by Amos » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:03 pm

Hi all, this is fixed in the firmware today... I apologize, I do test with cubase but always with MTC turned off, and using only MIDI clock. I made a small change in the code a while ago which (as a side-effect) messed up the handling of MIDI Timecode messages, and I did not see the problem myself until this bug report.

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Rene K
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:17 pm

Re: Moog Sub 37 hangs when receiving DAW - midi

Post by Rene K » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:09 pm

Fantastic :D and thanks, for the info.
I hope in the future the USB stability with Cubase is better, like the Little phatty II.
lg,
René

artofnois
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:24 pm

Re: Moog Sub 37 hangs when receiving DAW - midi

Post by artofnois » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:59 pm

Thanks Amos for the quickness.
I will be waiting for the next firmware update. I have anothers devices that need MTC

ImNotDedYet
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:14 pm

Re: Moog Sub 37 hangs when receiving DAW - midi

Post by ImNotDedYet » Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:57 pm

I've had no problems sending MIDI to my Sub from my DAW, (Live 9) but that was prior to 1.0.4, not sure what version I had at the time it worked well for me. But, I can say with certainty, that this has not been an issue from day 1.

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