Sub 37 editor/librarian and VST plugin

Everything Sub.
Post Reply
User avatar
Bald Eagle
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 11:25 am
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Sub 37 editor/librarian and VST plugin

Post by Bald Eagle » Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:17 pm

I can't say that I pleased with the situation. It seems that the editors are a very low priority with many companies. Korg is always late and DSI doesn't even give you one, you have to buy from a third party. But the lack of an editor is certainly not going to prevent me from using a great instrument regardless of what company it is from.

THX5
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:48 am

Re: Sub 37 editor/librarian and VST plugin

Post by THX5 » Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:44 pm

I think what is so frustrating for everyone is that we've all been told for well over a year that the software will be ready "soon". Also Moog has done very little to update its customers as to the status of the the software and the obvious issues that they're having getting the software released.

I think everyone here would be very understanding if Moog came out and said: "we're having issues with X,Y and Z and we think the software will be ready for public Beta in so many weeks". Then, if in so many weeks the software wasn't yet ready, put out a quick update as to the delay and how much longer they think it will take.

I fully realize that they may be having technical, manpower, or other issues within the company related to the software that they may not want out in the public domain for public consumption by their customers and competitors. However, I do think by releasing a product with a promised "feature" that doesn't exist isn't good business practices. If a single employee at Moog would take 5 minutes a month to give a quick update to the status of the software, it would do a lot to calm the growing sense of disgruntlement towards a great company and a great product.
Sub37 | Minitaur | Slim Phatty | MF-104M | MF-108M | MF-103 | CP-251 | 500 Series Ladder & Analog Delay | Strymon Big Sky
Windows 7 - 64 Bit | Pro Tools 12.5 | Ableton Live 9.6 & Push 2

Gametime
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:16 pm

Re: Sub 37 editor/librarian and VST plugin

Post by Gametime » Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:20 am

They dont care ! Same thing with the filter knob issue plastic vs metal.

I dont understand why nobody at the moog company keep us up 2 date that dont take much or am i saying something wrong ?....

Evertime the same story ... Blabla whe are almost done i will be delivered within 2 - 4 weeks blablabla

Lesson for the next time dont promise something if you can give it.

User avatar
LuLoop
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:09 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Sub 37 editor/librarian and VST plugin

Post by LuLoop » Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:50 am

bernard wrote: Besides the editor, the often mentioned and important features like displaying parameters and a useful method of naming the presets are ignored. I suggested a suitable way months ago: Use the keys for choosing letters. There are 37 keys that could represent the 26 letters and the 10 numbers. Associating a letter with a key is really easy to learn and remember, pressing a key twice could switch between lower and upper case. But there wasn't a response from Moog yet.
I found this. Read It. Read it again and Understood what is written here.
This Little simple but effective Idea. Just Wonderful..
A Awesome idea, what can not be ignored. In this case, People Who has problems with giving names in the presets, can use this great idea and do not need an Editor.
I do not Understand Why MOOG do not see such Idea´s. Do they not read their own Forum???
It is really a pity That such "BIG Compagny" is Ignoring Little Idea´s from People who want to HELP the others.

Of course they Have to finish Their Editor... People are Waiting already Long time for this Little but NEEDED MISSING "GOOD"
Promise, Promise, Promise and nothing happens.
Sad, Yes Sad it is

I think they put more time in Developing "SOFT WEAR" CLOTHING, MINIMUGS, MOOG SLIPMATS.....


--------------------------------------------WAKE UP MOOG------------------------------------------
Last edited by LuLoop on Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sorry for my English..It is not my Mother language
Machines: Sub 37.
Systems: Win7 64 and Mac Pro 10.9.4 Logic pro X

drossi
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:08 pm

Re: Sub 37 editor/librarian and VST plugin

Post by drossi » Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:51 am

I agree. I live here and stop in at their shop regularly. Usually they tell me no one is available who can discuss this. Frustrating.

bernard
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:04 am

Re: Sub 37 editor/librarian and VST plugin

Post by bernard » Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:01 am

Bald Eagle wrote:But the lack of an editor is certainly not going to prevent me from using a great instrument ...
That's right, Bald Eagle. I also don't need an editor for playing this instrument and having fun creating sound from the scratch.
But the lack of things like parameter display or an effective and fast way of naming the presets should be served as soon as possible with a "tiny" update. Bob mentioned at every opportunity "we design instruments for musicians". To my mind these items are essentially important for modern electronic musicians.

So why don't they give us such an update at least?

- the problems with USB, as I suspected? Maybe a bad interface chip in the hardware?
- the memory in the sub37 is too tight because of reducing the production costs?
- a solution using the keys for naming is too infantil, too easy, not worthy for a Moog synthesizer?
- they are heavily busy with designing mugs and t-shirts with cheap imitations of Escher and C.M.Schulz (ooh my goodness, I'm nasty now)

However, a librarian would be very useful and time-saving, an editor for sequences (with copy functions) would be great, a plugin would be nice for many users...
But I wouldn't cry for it, if the above mentioned features, which are obligatory by (most) other companies and instruments are solved with an update.

best,
Bernard

Edit: thanks, LuLoop for supporting :)

DrJustice
Posts: 184
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: Sub 37 editor/librarian and VST plugin

Post by DrJustice » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:05 am

Bernard, please don't take it out on your fellow users. I have no special attachments to Moog, just a happy Sub 37 owner. That's happy, as in enjoying a fine instrument and having experienced the most excellent customer care :)

I agree that having advertised the editor, and having had it in development for along time, they should deliver on that front. It's just that for me personally it's not that critical, although I'd like to be able to edit the sequencer in a more convenient way (I'm spoilt by Cubase) and a librarian would be quite handy.

Your idea of using the keys for naming is very good! How about letting the upper F#, G# and A# to select upper/lower/numeric, and letting the upper B and C be insert and delete (I suppose this should go in the wishlist thread). With that and a parameter display, many of us would be happier, making the wait for the editor less stressful. And bug fixes of course. If there's a matter of priorities, the instrument itself should come first IMO.

goodweather
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:50 am

Re: Sub 37 editor/librarian and VST plugin

Post by goodweather » Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:34 pm

FYI, I'm busy to build a Sub37 editor using Ctrlr. Quite good progress but a lot of work.
I requested documentation on sysex dump and sysex implementation from Moog but didn't get any feedback at all (neither on this forum nor via direct mail to support).
Happy with the synth but not with the customer service...

So, I spent hours in analyzing and trying to understand the sysex dump and I have now all panel buttons and a few from the menus (I leave the sequencer for later).
I also identified the name coding.
The Sub37 sysex layout is really messy and probably made not to be able to read (other manufacturers are usually ranking by NRPN number or other logical way - here everything is mixed).
Anyway, I'm in a pretty good state and beside the easy parameters that I don't need at the moment, only the checksum at the end is still a mistery but probably just a matter of time.

I can now read any dump and I started from the factory dumps (this was my primary goal and there is no need to understand the checksum).
Busy to finalize the reading (all rotary buttons done, remains the switches).
You can view and manage the EG curves.
You can soon view the wave shapes (I have this in test, I'll finalize this week).
You change the name as a text field in your PC...

I'll make a separate post when it will be ready in a decent way.
As Ctrlr allows you to work stand alone or VST, I'll also make a VST version of it later.

Conclusion: either from me or from Moog we should get something.
The Moog one should be better as there are basic sysex commands that I cannot figure out.
They are also probably spending 8 hrs a day on this while it is just a hobby for me (1 hr or 2 in the evening and not all evenings...)
Anyway, my goal was just to display the current buttons situation according to the values stored and that I have almost reached.

And I'm also doing this to learn Ctrlr to build another panel for the PLG-AN card which is in my Yamaha Motif and for which there is no more support in Windows 8/10.
Attachments
Sub37 panel - Editor 2.JPG

Amos
Posts: 2438
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Sub 37 editor/librarian and VST plugin

Post by Amos » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:30 pm

Hello everyone! I am leading the team responsible for the official Sub 37 Editor. I apologize for the long delay. If you'd like a pre-release version, just email me at [amos at moogmusic dot com] and I'll send you the latest Editor builds for Mac and Windows, and the latest Sub 37 firmware to go with it.

Development of this editor was interrupted for a while, which caused it to be later than we'd anticipated... but it's back on track and will definitely see release in the near future (probably late January, possibly early Feb. depending) ... but it's quite usable now if you'd like to try it out.

Kind regards,

Amos

AXN001
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: Sub 37 editor/librarian and VST plugin

Post by AXN001 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:46 pm

Done! :) Would love to receive it, and test the editor.

User avatar
LuLoop
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:09 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Sub 37 editor/librarian and VST plugin

Post by LuLoop » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:45 am

Something Happens.

They woke up. So it is not so bad to ring the bell sometimes.

In any way. Thanks Amos for this beauty. All is working fine.
This Made my day.
Regards Luloop
Sorry for my English..It is not my Mother language
Machines: Sub 37.
Systems: Win7 64 and Mac Pro 10.9.4 Logic pro X

goodweather
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:50 am

Re: Sub 37 editor/librarian and VST plugin

Post by goodweather » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:45 pm

@Amos: thx for this very good announcement Amos! Looking forward.
Will not bother by asking pre-releases...

dortola
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:52 pm

Re: Sub 37 editor/librarian and VST plugin

Post by dortola » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:28 pm

goodweather wrote:@Amos: thx for this very good announcement Amos! Looking forward.
Will not bother by asking pre-releases...
@Amos email sent! Thank you!

jtyrer
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:25 am

Re: Sub 37 editor/librarian and VST plugin

Post by jtyrer » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:24 am

@amos...email sent for a great early xmas present...thankyou

THX5
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:48 am

Re: Sub 37 editor/librarian and VST plugin

Post by THX5 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:41 am

@Amos, email sent. Hope mine doesn't get lost in your surely flooded by now Inbox!

Many Thanks!
Sub37 | Minitaur | Slim Phatty | MF-104M | MF-108M | MF-103 | CP-251 | 500 Series Ladder & Analog Delay | Strymon Big Sky
Windows 7 - 64 Bit | Pro Tools 12.5 | Ableton Live 9.6 & Push 2

Post Reply