Problem with Sub 37 (buzz sound)

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jido-genshi
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Re: Problem with Sub 37 (buzz sound)

Post by jido-genshi » Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:19 pm

sztakics_isti wrote:Hi. I have my Sub 37 only for 7 days.
Firmware 1.0.3
I CAN HEAR THAT BUZZ (HUM) SOUND. As I read the forgoing topics, it seems to be a common problem for Moog Sub 37 units.
I tried to make a simple sine wave like sound using the triangle waveform and I used the following setttings:

OCS 1 - 2' triangle max volume on mixer section
OSC 2 - 2' triangle max volume on mixer section

Sub osc - 0
Noise - 0
Feedbck - 0

Cut off Filter - 320 Hz --> 80 Hz
Reso - 0
Multidrive 0

Slope 24 db
EG amount and KB amount 0

Filter ADSR - 10, 0, 10, 10
Amp ADSR - 0, 0, 10, 10

No LFO 1 & 2

and the HUM appeared. I did't noticed this problem before, when I was surfing through the factory presets.

And yes, the hum is present between the triangle and square waveforms. (12 o'clock position on the wave shape button).

I tried the same settings on a Moog SubPhatty and the hum is not present. The sound of the Sub Phatty is much clearer.

I registered my Moog on Moogmusic and described the problem yesterday (friday the 26 th of September). No answer until now. I hope I will get one monday.

Sadly that hum is bothering me, and I am disappointed becouse I was waiting for this synth so much. However I don't want to send it back, I would keep it and I will filter the hum out of my recordings using an EQ.
I hope that Moog will correct this issue with the next firmware update. ... and I hope the Moog will include a feature that shows the exact bpm rate on the LCD screen, as it was on the Little Phatty.

Please check my attached files.
First off, if you have the OSC mixers on Max volume, you are overdriving the Oscillators. You need to set the OSC at below 5 (this is by design.)

Second, though I still don't hear the drone or hum, when I have an OSC set to 2' and play the high "G" note while sweeping the OSC waveform knob from triangle to square, I do hear a scratchy sound, but only while sweeping the knob (also happens when sweeping the OSC volume knob.)

With that being said though, even though I apologized to gencomprodukts for being so hard on him, my main point all along was that, anyone who claims this is bad enough to make the Sub 37 "unmusical" and to then send it back, is really missing out (to put it kindly.) Once you have an actual sound programmed, i.e., both Oscillators going with Filter, Modulation, etc., and then have that sound sitting in a mix of an actual song, I bet you all the money in the world you will not hear that "hum", or at least, it won't be heard enough to make it "unmusical." :roll:

Again, while a very small handful of people complain and spread FUD about this, many others are actually, happily making music with the Sub 37... and in any case, Moog said they are fixing it in the next Firmware update, so it's all a moot point anyway.

Solaris
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Re: Problem with Sub 37 (buzz sound)

Post by Solaris » Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:00 pm

Amen :wink:

sztakics_isti
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Re: Problem with Sub 37 (buzz sound)

Post by sztakics_isti » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:19 pm

happily making music with the Sub 37...
Yes. Despite that HUM that appears not only on maximal volume of the OSC in the mixer seections, but also on lower (position 5) settings. I AM A HAPPY USER OF THE SUB 37 :).

I wrote to Moog Support about the hum, and I told them about some other interesting, but missing features of the Sub 37. I wrote them that it would be nice if the LCD screen could indicate the actual bpm of the ARP or SEQ, and the patch select knobs could be used to control the steps of the sequencer. (e.g. to skip, or introduce some steps while the seq is running, or to set the last step in the seq row.)
Today I got the following answer:
All these things are coming! #1 is already fixed, we have a small firmware update planned for ASAP which fixes the 80Hz hum. #2 and #3 are coming also, probably in the following firmware update after the one that is currently in the works.

Cheers,

Amos

So ... I am waiting ... and making happily music. BUT as gencomprodukts said, a pro gear should't have such an issue.

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jido-genshi
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Re: Problem with Sub 37 (buzz sound)

Post by jido-genshi » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:33 pm

sztakics_isti wrote:
happily making music with the Sub 37...
Yes. Despite that HUM that appears not only on maximal volume of the OSC in the mixer seections, but also on lower (position 5) settings. I AM A HAPPY USER OF THE SUB 37 :).

I wrote to Moog Support about the hum, and I told them about some other interesting, but missing features of the Sub 37. I wrote them that it would be nice if the LCD screen could indicate the actual bpm of the ARP or SEQ, and the patch select knobs could be used to control the steps of the sequencer. (e.g. to skip, or introduce some steps while the seq is running, or to set the last step in the seq row.)
Today I got the following answer:
All these things are coming! #1 is already fixed, we have a small firmware update planned for ASAP which fixes the 80Hz hum. #2 and #3 are coming also, probably in the following firmware update after the one that is currently in the works.

Cheers,

Amos

So ... I am waiting ... and making happily music. BUT as gencomprodukts said, a pro gear should't have such an issue.
I agree, but some people here, and on other forums, were being a bit dramatic about the "hum" issue and were actually scaring people away from this synth. As I said before, to me at least, it was never bad enough to claim that is was completely unusable and thus be forced to return it.

As for those other suggestions, those are really great suggestions and it will be nice to dial in BPM more accurately via the LCD screen.

Toom
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Re: Problem with Sub 37 (buzz sound)

Post by Toom » Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:32 pm

This is definitely very noticeable when you're trying to patch a softer sound. I can't wait for the fix.

gencomprodukts
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Re: Problem with Sub 37 (buzz sound)

Post by gencomprodukts » Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:05 pm

Toom wrote:This is definitely very noticeable when you're trying to patch a softer sound. I can't wait for the fix.
Can't wait too!
MOOG Memorymoog+, Sub 37, CP251, ROLAND SH-1, SH-2, SH-7, SH101, Juno 60, SVC350, TR808, SCI Prophet 5 Rev.3.1, KORG Mono/poly, KR55, OBERHEIM SEM, WALDORF Microwave 1, DSI Prophet 08 Desktop PE, BOSS DR-55, BassBot TT303, AKAI MPC1000 JJOS2XL.

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HicoMe
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Re: Problem with Sub 37 (buzz sound)

Post by HicoMe » Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:57 am

I've got an update for test and it's very much better now with the "buzzing sound". It's not 100% eliminated, but what left is not as bassy as before and much quiter. For me it's o.k. to live with. :D

Regards
Heiko
My current Moogs: Sub 37
My former Moogs: Minimoog Model D, heavily selfmodified Prodigy, Satellite, Etherwave Theremin

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Rufus the Dog
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Re: Problem with Sub 37 (buzz sound)

Post by Rufus the Dog » Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:24 am

I also had a firmware update to test. I found the 82Hz tone and harmonics were reduce by about 15dB to over 65dB between the 82Hz and the played note.

I found that there were more low level / low frequency products than before but I couldn't hear them.

A couple of plots of before and after the update. Playing a single oscillator note around 2kHz with open filter, no feedback, no resonance etc

Before :-

Image

After :-

Image


R.

gencomprodukts
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Re: Problem with Sub 37 (buzz sound)

Post by gencomprodukts » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:34 am

Where can i get this firmware update to test?
It would be cool! Thanks.
MOOG Memorymoog+, Sub 37, CP251, ROLAND SH-1, SH-2, SH-7, SH101, Juno 60, SVC350, TR808, SCI Prophet 5 Rev.3.1, KORG Mono/poly, KR55, OBERHEIM SEM, WALDORF Microwave 1, DSI Prophet 08 Desktop PE, BOSS DR-55, BassBot TT303, AKAI MPC1000 JJOS2XL.

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Rufus the Dog
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Re: Problem with Sub 37 (buzz sound)

Post by Rufus the Dog » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:09 am

gencomprodukts wrote:Where can i get this firmware update to test?
It would be cool! Thanks.
Get in touch with Amos at Moog who supplied myself (and others) with an Alpha (maybe Beta) version of the Sub37 Firmware to test.

As the OP of this thread it would be good for you to give it a go and see what you think


R.

gencomprodukts
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Re: Problem with Sub 37 (buzz sound)

Post by gencomprodukts » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:24 am

Sure :?
Thanks Rufus!
MOOG Memorymoog+, Sub 37, CP251, ROLAND SH-1, SH-2, SH-7, SH101, Juno 60, SVC350, TR808, SCI Prophet 5 Rev.3.1, KORG Mono/poly, KR55, OBERHEIM SEM, WALDORF Microwave 1, DSI Prophet 08 Desktop PE, BOSS DR-55, BassBot TT303, AKAI MPC1000 JJOS2XL.

bartleby
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Re: Problem with Sub 37 (buzz sound)

Post by bartleby » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:23 pm

Rufus the Dog wrote:
gencomprodukts wrote:Where can i get this firmware update to test?
It would be cool! Thanks.
Get in touch with Amos at Moog who supplied myself (and others) with an Alpha (maybe Beta) version of the Sub37 Firmware to test.

As the OP of this thread it would be good for you to give it a go and see what you think
+1

@gencomprodukts: have you had a chance to try this new fw version? since you were the 'one with the golden ears' who first identified and reported this issue, i'd love to hear your opinion about the update. on rufus's screenshots, the improvement doesn't look terribly impressive - but of course what counts is what it sounds like, not what it looks like in a spectro-analysis...

gencomprodukts
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Re: Problem with Sub 37 (buzz sound)

Post by gencomprodukts » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:53 pm

bartleby wrote:
Rufus the Dog wrote:
gencomprodukts wrote:Where can i get this firmware update to test?
It would be cool! Thanks.
Get in touch with Amos at Moog who supplied myself (and others) with an Alpha (maybe Beta) version of the Sub37 Firmware to test.

As the OP of this thread it would be good for you to give it a go and see what you think
+1

@gencomprodukts: have you had a chance to try this new fw version? since you were the 'one with the golden ears' who first identified and reported this issue, i'd love to hear your opinion about the update. on rufus's screenshots, the improvement doesn't look terribly impressive - but of course what counts is what it sounds like, not what it looks like in a spectro-analysis...
Hi Bartleby,
I've finaly had the chance to test the "buzzing sound" firmware update and i can only repeat what the other members (Hicome & Rufus) reported: it's not 100% eliminated, just reduced but it's much better.
I can live with it now :wink: but you must know that it's still there even though much reduced.
MOOG Memorymoog+, Sub 37, CP251, ROLAND SH-1, SH-2, SH-7, SH101, Juno 60, SVC350, TR808, SCI Prophet 5 Rev.3.1, KORG Mono/poly, KR55, OBERHEIM SEM, WALDORF Microwave 1, DSI Prophet 08 Desktop PE, BOSS DR-55, BassBot TT303, AKAI MPC1000 JJOS2XL.

MacAquinas
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Re: Problem with Sub 37 (buzz sound)

Post by MacAquinas » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:10 pm

Hi Bartleby,
I've finaly had the chance to test the "buzzing sound" firmware update and i can only repeat what the other members (Hicome & Rufus) reported: it's not 100% eliminated, just reduced but it's much better.
I can live with it now :wink: but you must know that it's still there even though much reduced.[/quote]

Is it possible to downgrade firmware? Or is it only possible to change to a newer version?
Black Minimoog Voyager XL, Sub37, Slim Phatty, Mother-32, MF-104M SD, MF-105M, MP-201, CP-251, Theremini, Animoog ;-) . Roland Fantom G8 & Integra-7, Korg MS-20

Toom
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Re: Problem with Sub 37 (buzz sound)

Post by Toom » Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:11 pm

The hum seems to be getting worse or becoming even more noticeable. When creating softer sounds, it's impossible to avoid it. Is this something that will be eliminated conpletely at some point or is it only able to be reduced in intensity? I really hope Amos and the rest of the crew can destroy this bug! Go Moog Go! :)

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