Anyone else brick their Sub37 with firmware 1.0.2?

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_DemonDan_
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Re: Anyone else brick their Sub37 with firmware 1.0.2?

Post by _DemonDan_ » Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:40 pm

mmarsh100 wrote:The only time the machine rebooted for me was after the main sysex file.
The panel ones did not reboot my machine.
It's not really a reboot, but I couldn't think of a better word at that moment.
Let's just say it loses the USB connection after some of those steps.
So always check after each send that your librarian is still connected to the Sub 37 via USB.
mmarsh100 wrote:I wonder if I have corrupt sysex files?
I'd bet against it, especially since they were zipped.
mmarsh100 wrote:I will try to re-download and do the whole shebang tonight...
Start from FINE TUNE and CUTOFF all the way counterclockwise and PITCH all the way up, then power on.

Wait a bit. Make sure your librarian sees the Sub 37 again. If it doesn't, do an ordinary power cycle and try to find the USB again after 15 seconds.

Then, send the Main file.

Wait a bit after the Display screen is normal again. Make sure your librarian sees the Sub 37 again. If it doesn't, do an ordinary power cycle and try to find the USB again after 15 seconds.

Now send the Panel Erase file.

Wait a bit. Make sure your librarian sees the Sub 37 again.

Send the Panel file.

Wait a bit after the LEDs are normal again. Make sure your librarian sees the Sub 37 again. If it doesn't, do an ordinary power cycle and try to find the USB again after 15 seconds.

Send the Presets file. As soon as those are sent you can send the Tunings file.

Note: Your Sub 37 will be left in the Slendro tuning scale.

Either:
1) Go to GLOBAL, go into the TUNING SCALES sub menu, and scroll all the way to the left to see 12 T Equal Temp.

or

2) Go to GLOBAL, go into the INIT SETTINGS >>> sub menu, and hold SAVE for 5 seconds.
_ :twisted: _DemonDan_ :twisted: _

mmarsh100
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Re: Anyone else brick their Sub37 with firmware 1.0.2?

Post by mmarsh100 » Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:41 pm

Hmmm, yeah, something's funky. I just re-downloaded and the main sysex is bigger than the panel sysex which is NOT true of the one I have at home :( I'm thinking bad sysex files, maybe unzipping on a Mac is hosing it. Never had that before, even updated my Sub Phatty successfully a couple of times.

*EDIT* we cross posted :) I will indeed try that tonight, though I believe I was doing just that last night. Will report back, and thanks Dan!

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_DemonDan_
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Re: Anyone else brick their Sub37 with firmware 1.0.2?

Post by _DemonDan_ » Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:49 pm

mmarsh100 wrote:I'm thinking bad sysex files, maybe unzipping on a Mac is hosing it.
I never done a Sub 37 update on anything but a Mac (Mac mini, MacBook Pro, and MacBook).
_ :twisted: _DemonDan_ :twisted: _

aisling
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Re: Anyone else brick their Sub37 with firmware 1.0.2?

Post by aisling » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:20 pm

It worked ok on this end, upgraded last night. Mac mini 2012, C6, usb direct.

Yogi108
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Re: Anyone else brick their Sub37 with firmware 1.0.2?

Post by Yogi108 » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:36 pm

The new 1.0.2 update didn't work for me either. I'm using the OS version... I'm using the C6 software for the update... The red Midi light lit up on the Sub37 and seemed to work for the main firmware update (main.syx). I selected the Sub 37 from the Config window after each of the three steps as mentioned in earlier posts... When I did the Panel Erase update, I saw an error message on the LCD: "ERROR: Proc. Buff" When I then try and send the panel.syx file, I see it loading in the C6 software but there is no red Midi light showing up on the Sub 37... I am unable to play or do anything on the Sub 37... It's locked in this mode... I called Moog this morning and left a message. I'm guessing they are busy helping others with this and other issues.... Hope to hear back from them soon! Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

Rod
Last edited by Yogi108 on Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Amos
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Re: Anyone else brick their Sub37 with firmware 1.0.2?

Post by Amos » Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:12 pm

mmarsh100 wrote:Hmmm, yeah, something's funky. I just re-downloaded and the main sysex is bigger than the panel sysex which is NOT true of the one I have at home :(
according to MIDI-OX, here are the filesizes of the unzipped files:

sub37_1_0_2_main.syx: 359740 Bytes
sub37_1_0_2_panel.syx: 808617 Bytes
(sub37_1_0_2_panel_erase.syx 260 Bytes)

Just a note, be sure you actually unzip these files to their own folder before you try to load and send them.
Apparently one customer who called tech support had been loading the sysex files directly from the zip file without unzipping them first, and this was causing an error.

jsumners
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Re: Anyone else brick their Sub37 with firmware 1.0.2?

Post by jsumners » Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:26 pm

Amos wrote:
mmarsh100 wrote:Hmmm, yeah, something's funky. I just re-downloaded and the main sysex is bigger than the panel sysex which is NOT true of the one I have at home :(
according to MIDI-OX, here are the filesizes of the unzipped files:

sub37_1_0_2_main.syx: 359740 Bytes
sub37_1_0_2_panel.syx: 808617 Bytes
(sub37_1_0_2_panel_erase.syx 260 Bytes)

Just a note, be sure you actually unzip these files to their own folder before you try to load and send them.
Apparently one customer who called tech support had been loading the sysex files directly from the zip file without unzipping them first, and this was causing an error.
Yeah, not actually unzipping them would be a bad plan.

But here's a suggestion. Include a checksum (for at least the zip) that can be used to verify the download.

There's plenty of md5sum tools for Windows available -- https://www.google.com/search?q=windows+md5sum+gui

And OS X -- https://www.google.com/search?q=os+x+md5sum+gui (if you don't feel like using the bundled md5sum CLI tool)

ArtyMorty
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Re: Anyone else brick their Sub37 with firmware 1.0.2?

Post by ArtyMorty » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:52 pm

joe_moog wrote:I followed the instructions to a tee and after the first attempt, found my 37 stuck with the "blank screen and LEDs on" mentioned in the instructions. So, I tried to start at "Panel firmware update" and go from there. I noticed that when sending this (the erase) SysEx via c6, it's incredibly brief. I verified that the Sub37 was selected in Config dialog. Also, the MIDI LED only 'blips' once when I send it – no constant blinking. If I try to send the panel SysEx the same behavior occurs, the only exception being that it takes about a minute via c6 and I can watch the progress bar indicate transmission (again making sure the 37 is selected in the configuration of c6).

The 37 doesn't reboot or anything - just stays at a blank screen, LEDs on, and arp light going at about 1Hz. I tried restarting my Mac and beginning at the first step, but no joy...

Any ideas? The instructions don't mention it, but are you supposed to redial the Fine Tune and Cutoff CCW and hold pitch up and cycle power on the 37 before the panel erase and panel loading steps?

If it helps with the diagnosis, when I send the panel Sysex, the MIDI stays red (no blinking) and the arp light is off, and when it finishes, MIDI blinks red and arp blinks, too...

(I'm really not trying to be hypercritical here, but the whole firmware update process is sketchy, IMHO. I could understand sticking with SysEx for legacy reasons. But, given that it can't even be sent over DIN, why not make it more drag-and-drop via USB?)
I just wanted to chime in and say that this was my exact experience as well. I have done many firmware updates over the years and I think these instructions are very simple to understand. My Sub 37 is connected directly to my 2012 Mac Pro 6 core with OSX 10.8.5. I tried using another USB cable for the heck of it and no luck. I then connected the Sub 37 to my Toshiba laptop and had no luck on the Windows side either. Since I live close to Moog I can drop by but I thought that I'd first post that I'm in the same dilemma as joe_moog and wonder if he figured anything out yet. Any luck joe?

mmarsh100
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Re: Anyone else brick their Sub37 with firmware 1.0.2?

Post by mmarsh100 » Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:23 am

*WHEW* It took a bit (5 more tries) but I finally got it back and with the new firmware. Ultimately I used SysexLibrarian and set the comm speed to about 47% of fastest. Running through the whole procedure at this speed with this program did it for me. Thank goodness.

Amos
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Re: Anyone else brick their Sub37 with firmware 1.0.2?

Post by Amos » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:03 am

We will definitely work on streamlining the update procedure. I think I may have mentioned that when there is a Sub 37 editor, we'll put a firmware-update utility in the editor to make it more of a "one click" (or as few clicks as possible) process.

A few more notes for anyone who is having difficulty:

- If you power on the unit in Bootloader mode (Fine Tune and Cutoff knobs to minimum, hold Pitch Wheel at maximum while turning on the power), this erases the main firmware. When powering on in this mode, you have to send the main firmware sysex as the next thing you do; you can't update the panel until the main firmware is in there.

- If you are in the middle of sending, the red MIDI LED should be blinking on and off, the Arp Rate LED should be blinking on and off, but the two LEDs should not be in sync with one another. If you know you're sending data and the red MIDI LED is not blinking, that's an error. If the MIDI LED and Arp Rate LED are blinking in unison, that's an error.

- If you are trying to recover from an error, and the panel is blank/all LEDs lit, then it can definitely be more challenging to know if things are working.
I went through the process myself yesterday, and tried to note all of the things that you should look for and see during this process.

If you are updating the main firmware (step 1) while the panel is blank, here’s what you see:

- red MIDI LED blinks while the file is being transferred, Arp Rate LED also blinks, both are blinking kind of slow, and they are not in sync with each other.

- when the main firmware update finishes, the unit reboots, but with the panel blank you only get a couple of hints. The Arp Rate LED starts blinking faster than it was before, and the MIDI LED flickers and then it goes solid red.

Next you send the panel erase sysex (we are thinking about renaming this file “step 2”).

When you send this file, this is what you should see:

- Arp Rate LED pauses for a moment, then starts blinking pretty fast (faster than it was blinking before, if you just finished sending main firmware).

- no change to the MIDI LED; in the case where the panel is already blank the MIDI LED will remain solid red at this time.


Next send the panel firmware (step 3). This part should take the longest since it’s the biggest file. Maybe up to a minute if sending using Sysex Librarian, which is pretty slow… faster if using a PC / C6.

- You will see the MIDI LED blinking (relatively fast, faster than it did for the main firmware update) while the file is being sent.

Just wait for the transfer to finish. If it completes successfully, the unit will reboot to its normal happy working state.



If the unit does not reboot automatically , there was some sort of transfer error. Troubleshooting steps would involve making sure the darn zip file was unzipped, that you aren't using a USB hub, and if all else fails try a different sysex sending program, slower sysex sending rate, different USB cable, different computer... and/or re-download the file in case there was a download error. We will include checksum verification in future firmware download files.
Last edited by Amos on Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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_DemonDan_
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Re: Anyone else brick their Sub37 with firmware 1.0.2?

Post by _DemonDan_ » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:23 am

Here are Preferences/General settings I use on the free SysEx Librarian software for Mac:

"Pause between played messages" = 250 milliseconds

"SysEx receive timeout" = 1 second

I've had 100% success updating multiple Sub 37s since April (20+ full updates, presets, tunings) using Apple desktop and laptop computers.

There's a new update of the SysEx Librarian (v. 1.3.1) that just came out last week:

http://www.snoize.com/SysExLibrarian/
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ArtyMorty
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Re: Anyone else brick their Sub37 with firmware 1.0.2?

Post by ArtyMorty » Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:44 am

My update progress happened exactly as Amos mentioned in post 2072 except for the last step. When I sent the panel file the red midi led blinked a few times then turned either solid red or amber. If I clicked “stop” the Midi and Arp lights blinked rapidly in sync. I tried to just do a panel erase and panel load from this point but had the same results. I’ve also tried starting from the beginning with the same results. One thing that I noticed is that after the main.syx update not all of my panel lights stayed lit - some of them were off which I assume means a corrupt transfer. However, all of the lights stay lit when powering on in Bootloader mode.

So, I decided to give SysEx librarian a try with the settings suggested in this thread and everything worked perfectly.
Thanks all for your help.
Last edited by ArtyMorty on Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

mmarsh100
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Re: Anyone else brick their Sub37 with firmware 1.0.2?

Post by mmarsh100 » Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:55 pm

Thanks, Amos, thanks Dan. I think the issue was in uploading Panel - the MIDI LED blinked at the beginning but stopped. The key is to slow down the comm speed. I think Dan's parameters will indeed work reliably, I know 100 ms did not so it does have to be slow!

Anyway, nice to have her back :)

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Re: Anyone else brick their Sub37 with firmware 1.0.2?

Post by JonLukas » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:50 pm

I have successfully updated using SysEx Librarian and DemonDan's settings.

Many thanks to Dan and Amos and everyone else who contributed to this thread. It made me much more confident to go ahead with the update.
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Re: Anyone else brick their Sub37 with firmware 1.0.2?

Post by joe_moog » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:09 pm

Hmm...still no luck.

I d/l'd the new SysEx Librarian and used the settings Dan suggested. Point of failure seems to be step 3 in Amos' instructions above (sending the panel file). Every time I do this step, both the MIDI and the arp LEDs are on with no blinking. When the file completes the send, then they both start blinking again, in unison...

I'm not using a USB hub, and I've switched the SysEx loader app, USB cable, and even which USB port I'm using on my laptop.

I've upgraded my Phattys and Foogers using their respective methods and have never encountered a glitch – this one has me stumped. I should note, too, that I upgraded my 37 from 1.0.0 to 1.0.1 with no hitches.

:cry:
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