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Sub37 keys...hanging too far out from panel? Moog to fix

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:27 am
by Blackout
hi all, just recieved my Sub37 today. i think there might be a manufacturing problem with my keyboard position in the unit, just wandering if it is the same for everyone else?

when i stand and look at the keys on the keyboard, i can see the raw end of the top of the keys sticking out from underneath the panel. it looks fairly ugly. i can see a square hole in the key at the top and some plastic bit in the hole of each key sticking out. Dirt and dust crap is going to fall into these squares and fill them up over time.

Basicially, it looks like the whole keyboard is sticking too far out from underneath the knob panel. the keyboard is too far forward, and the "guts" of the keyboard keys are starting to be visible. especially when you press a key, it just looks ugly up there.

when i look at the keyboard on my Sub Phatty, the keys seem to be set back a few mm further into the unit. so you dont see the raw top end of the keys. nice and neat.

please take a look at the pics. why is the gap so much bigger for the Sub37? is this a problem with my unit? surely this is not right...

(as the forum pic uploads do not work (board quota has been reached??) here is a dropbox with the 3 pics (100k each)

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w30sb956xjdl ... 1PiIa?dl=0

Cheers,
Blackout

Re: Sub37 keys...hanging too far out?

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:30 am
by lushr
This is perfectly normal, it is exactly the same on my Little Phatty stage 2 and my sub 37.

Re: Sub37 keys...hanging too far out?

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:56 pm
by synthesis4all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU2RVYHeVEE

Looks like there has always been a gap in the Moog Keybed styling, but maybe the sub 37 is a little too far out..

Re: Sub37 keys...hanging too far out?

Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:59 am
by Blackout
hi lushr, thank you. But this is not the case for my Sub Phatty? they are meant to be the similar keyboards from the same supplier? can you show a pic of this on your Little Phatty?

synthesis4all that is a great video of a minimoog being played, i enjoyed it in full, but it has nothing to do with the topic or question?

anyone else with a Sub37 but doesnt have this problem?

Cheers,
Blackout.

Re: Sub37 keys...hanging too far out?

Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:36 am
by DeckardTrinity
My Sub 37 keys appear to be configured exactly the same - I see no issue with mine, it plays perfectly well.

Re: Sub37 keys...hanging too far out?

Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:33 pm
by Blackout
hi Deckard, i was not suggesting that the keyboard does not play perfectly well? indeed i really like the feel of the keyboard also when playing. it feels professional, solid and expensive. And the aftertouch is really nice.

i was referring to the problem where the raw end of the top of the keys on my Sub37 are sticking out from underneath the panel, showing the start of the key mechanism, which is not a nice look, and i can see will lead to problems later on down the track as the mechansim fills with dirt.

This problem is not visible for my Sub Phatty. The keys are mounted a few mm higher underneath the panel inside so you cant see the start of the key mechanism open to the elements. you just see a nice, clean solid key disappearing up the top under the panel.

my serial number is in the mid 200's, is this the case for everyones Sub37? maybe it was just an early manufacturing fault? how high is your serial number roughly Deckard?

Cheers,
Blackout

Re: Sub37 keys...hanging too far out?

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:06 am
by jido-genshi
Though it is more pronounced than most other synths, I think it is normal for this product line. I too noticed it when my Sub 37 arrived, but I don't think it is an actual issue, and it doesn't bother me as it seems a fairly minor thing (and I'm usually extremely picky!) My serial number is in the mid 300s.

Re: Sub37 keys...hanging too far out?

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:50 pm
by DeckardTrinity
I will check later tonight and compare my keyboard against your pictures. My serial # is mid-400s, and I do see the notch in the upper part of the keys even when they are not depressed. However, after looking at your #2 picture again (the one that shows the notches), it looks like some of your keys stick out further than others? Or are those ones depressed? It's hard to tell from the one picture.

Re: Sub37 keys...hanging too far out?

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:51 am
by lushr
Like I said both by LP stage 2 and sub 37 look identical to your photo, you can see the small rectangular hole at the top of each key. I've opened my LP and no dust or grime has collected in that way.

Edit: ok I tried to take photos with a flash and I see the difference now. My LP is more like yr sub phatty.

I'm not worried about it though, the synth is beautifully made, and unlike the others the keyboard is aftertouch, so not actually the same technology as the others.

Re: Sub37 keys...hanging too far out?

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:53 am
by namnibor
Mine arrived two days ago :D and love the keys. I am extremely picky about key-action as well as my synth's aesthetically pleasing characteristics. This key-bed does not bother me in any way. Mine serial # is in low 800's. I also bought the Moog Little Phatty/SUB 37 cover (it fits both like a glove and no dust and keys are no issue). It is a cover definitely befitting a Moog.

Re: Sub37 keys...hanging too far out?

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:02 pm
by Moog Music
Hi All,
Because our instruments are often used on tours, we design for super fast servicing (particularly on the road) so that these units can stay up and running at all times. (If you drop something and break 3 keys, they can be swapped in 15 minutes.) Because of the16 preset buttons on the Sub 37 lower panel, we had to add a small increase in spacing between the back of the key and the panel for quick service. The panel does still cover these holes and prevent dust/buildup. We are currently looking into a field-installable visual solution for those that find this objectionable.

-Your Friends at Moog

Re: Sub37 keys...hanging too far out?

Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:40 am
by psynthetic
Excellent response, i think that's a feature that Bob'd be proud of. :)

Re: Sub37 keys...hanging too far out?

Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:37 am
by bartleby
@moog music: that's brilliant news!
i was planning to glue in a strip of felt underneath the panel, like you have on pianos.
now i'll wait and see what you guys will come up with.

Re: Sub37 keys...hanging too far out?

Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:03 am
by Blackout
thanks Moog for the explanation!

i cant help thinking however that if you were aware of the extra space that the preset buttons had taken up, then the very bottom angled "fold" of the panel (where the panel ends and the keys start) could have been just a bit longer to cover up this issue. now from your explanation it sounds like you installed the buttons for the 16 presets in manufacturing and went "whoops..stuff aint fitting....ok...now we gotta mount the keyboard a bit further out so it fits past the switches, damn its too late to change the panel length to cover up the problem, we've already made all the panels ...ok lets just run with it and see if anyone notices or cares...well thats just how it turned out , boss."

a small black strip with some adhesive that could just slip into the groove at the top of the keys, stick to the bottom panel lip and cover over the holes would do the trick however. maybe if it was brown wood color it could even match the side cheeks and make the whole synth look even more retro/cool...

however you do it, the offer to help fix the problem is wonderful :)

Cheers,
Blackout

Re: Sub37 keys...hanging too far out?

Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:32 pm
by bartleby
Blackout wrote:maybe if it was brown wood color it could even match the side cheeks and make the whole synth look even more retro/cool...

i'm hoping for red or yellow felt.
felt, along with wooden side panels, always makes a synth sound much warmer. ;)