Sub 37 - Questions

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_DemonDan_
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Re: Sub 37 - Questions

Post by _DemonDan_ » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:14 pm

evileye wrote:The above pretty much explains why I prefer to have a PC based librarian for dealing with patches. I hate having patches forced to restore to the original patch location.
It really depends on your situation. One excellent use for SysEx dumps is a live situation that requires many different banks, each to be dumped to a keyboard at the right moment. The beauty of this method is that it doesn't require the performer to answer any questions or push any buttons. It just happens.
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evileye
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Re: Sub 37 - Questions

Post by evileye » Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:11 pm

_DemonDan_ wrote:
evileye wrote:The above pretty much explains why I prefer to have a PC based librarian for dealing with patches. I hate having patches forced to restore to the original patch location.
It really depends on your situation. One excellent use for SysEx dumps is a live situation that requires many different banks, each to be dumped to a keyboard at the right moment. The beauty of this method is that it doesn't require the performer to answer any questions or push any buttons. It just happens.
Don't get me wrong, I like having BOTH approaches the most. :) However, I am a software designer so I am well aware that creating solutions to make everyone happy are rarely practical.

jsumners
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Re: Sub 37 - Questions

Post by jsumners » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:06 pm

_DemonDan_ wrote:
jsumners wrote:I'd much rather be able to load the "patch" location via the panel and then go to the sysex menu and choose to receive a patch to the current location.
That gets tricky when there can be anywhere between 1 & 256 presets being dumped at once.

There is only one Edit Buffer (like pretty much on all keyboards) so, if there is more than one preset, they can't all go to that edit buffer.

Don't forget that there is an alleged editor coming for this that will make the process much more predictable and organizable.

What you're currently using is a raw SysEx Dump method which is much more primitive than a LOAD/SAVE operation.
It's a problem that Moog has already solved. Page 47 of the Slim Phatty manual:
The SP is able to receive System Exclusive data at any time without any special prior setup. SysEx files are recognized and received automatically when a SysEx data transfer is initiated. The Little Phatty’s LCD screen will display the status of SysEx data transfers as follows:

SINGLE PRESETS:
The SP will briefly display a ‘RECEIVING SINGLE PRESET’ message whenever a single preset is transmitted via SysEx. The preset will automatically be stored at the current preset location. For example, if the current preset location is 31 when the SysEx is received, the new preset data will be written into location 31.
I understand that the firmware for the Sub 37 is still in-development. But this is some rather basic sysex functionality that was already present in an earlier Phatty. I don't know of any reason why the Sub 37 couldn't also provide the functionality, even if I have to wait for a new firmware to provide it.

I do look forward to the software. Hopefully it will resolve this issue for me. Still, I'm rather shocked it isn't already present in the firmware.

Amos
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Re: Sub 37 - Questions

Post by Amos » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:49 pm

jsumners wrote: I'd much rather be able to load the "patch" location via the panel and then go to the sysex menu and choose to receive a patch to the current location. If you have the power, please get that added to a firmware wish list.
You can already do this, pretty much, using the "Send Panel" option on the sysex menu. (This same item will be renamed BUFFER SND in the next firmware version). There's just one extra step:

1) use Send Panel (BUFFER SND) to output your sysex and save it to your computer.
2) select the "patch" location via the panel, as you are describing
3) send the sysex file you created in step (1) back to the Sub 37. It will load into the unit automatically, in the location selected in step (2), but it isn't saved to permanent memory yet.
4) press Save, then press and hold Save again to confirm... preset from sysex is now saved in memory in the location you want.

So, if you know you want a preset to automatically get loaded back to the same preset location it was in originally, use the second option on the Sysex menu, CUR PRESET, to output the preset sysex. You might want to put the bank and patch number (example: B2P6) in the file name when you save the sysex file, as a reminder.

If you want to save a preset so that you can load it back to any location in the synth, then use the first option on the sysex menu, PANEL SOUND [BUFFER SND in later firmware]. Then when you send the preset back to the unit it is simply loaded to the edit buffer and you can save it anywhere you like.

Another note, the preset save process has two steps... in the first step you can choose to edit the name, or not... in the second step, you can select any preset location in the unit before holding the SAVE button to complete the save process. So you can easily load a preset, tweak it, and then save it to a new location, as a part of the normal save procedure.

cb70
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Re: Sub 37 - Questions

Post by cb70 » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:53 pm

_DemonDan_ wrote:
cb70 wrote:I was comparing them with the menu breakdown from the pdf and for Global Menu 2.x mine only shows the top three choices. Light Show and Preset volume are missing.
Hmmm... I don't have the Sub 37 with me, but 1.0.1 is installed and I used the LIGHT SHOW parameter recently.

Have you re-installed the latest operating systems? It only takes a few minutes and doesn't harm your presets.
Yes, by re-loading the firmware everything is now viewable. Thanks for the help.

easyjoey
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Re: Sub 37 - Questions

Post by easyjoey » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:41 am

A couple questions on the Sub 37

When a change is made to the Sub 37 the display indicates a change has been made with the letter "E". On my Voyager if a change is made you can see the original value and the altered value so you know how to get back to the original value. Is there an option to turn this on with the Sub 37 or will that option be available in a future update?

Does the Sub 37 automatically sync to an incoming midi signal?

Can someone explain the various options in the global menu regarding how the knobs alter settings? I know with the little phatty there were several options like no changes would be made until you swept past the stored value or the value would leap as soon as you moved the knob.

Thanks

Joe

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_DemonDan_
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Re: Sub 37 - Questions

Post by _DemonDan_ » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:53 am

easyjoey wrote:Can someone explain the various options in the global menu regarding how the knobs alter settings? I know with the little phatty there were several options like no changes would be made until you swept past the stored value or the value would leap as soon as you moved the knob.
Hi Joe,

When changing presets, the physical positions of the panel knobs will not match the values saved in a preset.
POT MODE, in the GLOBAL MENU, allows you to specify how a knob responds when you make changes to its position.

ABS: In absolute mode (default) the value of a parameter jumps to the knob’s current position as soon as you begin turning it.

THRU: In pass through mode turning the knob has no effect until it reaches its preset value and then takes effect.

RLTV: In relative mode turning a knob up or down slightly causes a minor change in value, and turning it further causes an increasingly greater change in value. This allows the value to “catch up” with the knob’s position and prevents any sudden jumps in sound.
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Re: Sub 37 - Questions

Post by _DemonDan_ » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:00 am

easyjoey wrote:Does the Sub 37 automatically sync to an incoming midi signal?
Assuming that either or both of the MIDI In Ports are enabled (5-Pin DIN, USB), and you're actually sending them MIDI Clock, you can then choose to have the Arp, LFO 1, LFO 2, Filter EG, and Amp EG each sync to MIDI Clock. You just need to light the dedicated SYNC button for each of those control sources.

You can use the PRESET EDIT MENU to choose the unit-of-the-beat for each of those control sources (from 4 whole notes to 1/64T).
Last edited by _DemonDan_ on Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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_DemonDan_
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Re: Sub 37 - Questions

Post by _DemonDan_ » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:07 am

easyjoey wrote:When a change is made to the Sub 37 the display indicates a change has been made with the letter "E". On my Voyager if a change is made you can see the original value and the altered value so you know how to get back to the original value. Is there an option to turn this on with the Sub 37 or will that option be available in a future update?
There is currently no option for that. But... the future holds many things for the Sub 37.

This forum's requests and suggestions are always considered and have resulted in many things that make the Sub 37 what it is today and what it will be tomorrow..
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evileye
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Re: Sub 37 - Questions

Post by evileye » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:13 am

_DemonDan_ wrote:
easyjoey wrote:When a change is made to the Sub 37 the display indicates a change has been made with the letter "E". On my Voyager if a change is made you can see the original value and the altered value so you know how to get back to the original value. Is there an option to turn this on with the Sub 37 or will that option be available in a future update?
There is currently no option for that. But... the future holds many things for the Sub 37.

This forum's requests and suggestions are always considered and have resulted in many things that make the Sub 37 what it is today and what it will be tomorrow..
Just in case this feature hasn't been implemented yet and you are trying to judge interest, I'd like to see this feature VERY much.

evileye
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Re: Sub 37 - Questions

Post by evileye » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:15 am

I know this is bound to have an easy answer but I got frustrated with this simple concept over the weekend.

How do I assign a destination for the Mod Wheel modulation. I found the percentage, but not the destination.

Thanks
Mark

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_DemonDan_
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Re: Sub 37 - Questions

Post by _DemonDan_ » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:42 am

evileye wrote:How do I assign a destination for the Mod Wheel modulation. I found the percentage, but not the destination.
Hi Mark,

In the current operating system, the MODULATION wheel doesn't directly modulate something (with one exception).

What it does is control the *depth* of the settings of MOD 1 or MOD 2.

So, for example, if you set LFO 1 (in MOD 1) to Triangle, and then turn the PITCH AMT of MOD 1 to a non-zero value (12 o'clock = 0), and the OSC 1 LED under it is lit, you'll find that (typically) there is no modulation with the MODULATION wheel down. If the MODULATION wheel is all the way up you'll hear exactly the amount of modulation you chose with the PITCH AMT knob.

Basically, that percentage parameter you found in the CONTROLLERS MENU indicates the percentage of how much the MODULATION wheel's position affects the total depth of that MOD. At 100%, none of your modulation destinations (PITCH, FILTER, MOD 1) will get any LFO if the MODULATION wheel is all the way down, and 100% when all the way up.

If the percentage was 50%, then the wheel all the way down would allow 50% of your PITCH, FILTER, MOD AMT depths to get through.

At 0%, the MODULATION wheel will have no effect at all on your PITCH, FILTER, MOD AMT depths.

Hope that helps some.

P.S. The one exception? When the MOD Source is on PGM and you have chosen CONSTANT ON as your programmable modulation source. Then, the MODULATION wheel directly modulates PITCH, FILTER, and MOD, each based on their AMT knob's setting.
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easyjoey
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Re: Sub 37 - Questions

Post by easyjoey » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:46 am

Thank you for the quick responses! That is the info I was looking for.

Joe

egg
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Re: Sub 37 - Questions

Post by egg » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:16 am

When will we see an update where the knobs are motorized and instantly jump to the preset settings? ;)

Seriously though, that's the main downside to having all these knobs and presets.

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_DemonDan_
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Re: Sub 37 - Questions

Post by _DemonDan_ » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:03 pm

egg wrote:When will we see an update where the knobs are motorized and instantly jump to the preset settings? ;)
Seriously though, that's the main downside to having all these knobs and presets.
Truly a First World Problem ;-)

There are several routines that I use when creating Sub 37 presets from scratch:

1) Start by either using INIT PRESET or just start from any of the INIT PRESETs in the higher banks.

2) Hand-set knobs and buttons to their most innocuous or obvious position like:
ARP Off, GLIDE Off, LFOs to TRI, all AMTs to 12 o'clock, Octaves to 8', WAVEs at 12 o'clock, all MIXER LEDs On but all MIXER levels at zero except OSC 1 at 12 o'clock. CUTOFF wide open, RESONANCE and MULTIDRIVE at minimum, EG AMT and KB TRACK at 12 o'clock. Set both Envelopes to 7 - 12 - 5 - 12 (all o'clocks). After you've done this a few times you can do it all in under 30 seconds.

Now, what you see is pretty close to what you get.

What's hard is tweaking a saved preset long after you've initially worked on it. At some point, a computer-based editor will make this easier. But, in the mean time, I challenge you to try and understand a preset simply by listening to it and *hearing* the routings and tweaking each knob to get it to its saved value.

You will quickly become a Sub 37 guru if you try this with lots of the factory presets. You really only have to worry about knobs as the buttons are already lit/unlit and the display screen shows all of its saved parameters.
Last edited by _DemonDan_ on Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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