Sub Phatty - Processing sounds through input

[josh]

Hi
Scanned the forum but couldnt really find a direct answer to my question.
So im trying to process some sounds via the sub phattys filters, multidrive some drums etc, except the noise floor is through the roof (up around -60db when i turn up the volume of the recording to hit at 0db).

Im running drums out of ableton through my Audio Kontrol 1 soundcard into the sub phatty and then back into the inputs on my soundcard.
Ive tried lowering the volume at the ableton output stage (bout -12db), soundcard output stage (1/4 way around on the knob) and the extrernal input stage on the sub phatty ( 4).

Im using decent TRS jack cables and have used standard unbalanced jack cables (not that i think that this makes a difference.)
Ive tried changing the input on the soundcard from line to instrument in and vica versa with not alot of difference.

I didnt think this could be a cheap soundcard issue as the synth itself records in fine with a standard noisefloor of -97db.
Am i expecting to much for a cleaner signal when running sounds through the sub phattys filters/multidrive? Or am i missing something?

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

[josh]

Put simply.
Has anyone got any tips on getting a clean signal when processing sounds via the sub phatty filters without the noise floor being high?

[unfiltered37]

sounds like a volume envelope issue. I am not sure how to open the VCA on the subphatty, other than holding down a key with the oscillators and noise source off. Actually that could be it, it might be just the noise source is on.

[Wesley]

I would try:

1. Plugging a blank plug into the KB Gate input.
2. Turning the VCA envelope sustain level to maximum.
3. Setting the filter cutoff to maximum.
4. Setting oscillators and noise level to minimum.
5. Adjusting audio input level.

This should provide the cleanest signal path through the instrument.

[josh]

thanks for the reply.
I have tried all these things, ive also had the sub phatty editor plugged in to make sure all the settings are where i think they are.
Its definatley a noise floor issue, one you would expect if you had like bad cabling or something, the thing is i dont.
I just thought processing sounds through the sub phatty filter & multidrive would achieve a lower noise floor then -60db when the recording is hitting at 0db, which is quite noticable in recordings. im not hung up on everything being pristine perfect but -60db is quite noitcable underneath sounds.

[stiiiiiiive]

Wesley is right.

Plus check:
- resonance is set to 0
- there is no ongoing filter modulation.

The Little Phatty manual states that with volume sustain and release at max and decay under 12h it's possible to get an infinite volume envelope. I guess it's the same with the SubPhatty...

To be checked.

[willi]

Verify your AC wiring is not creating a ground loop -- make sure everything is plugged into the same outlet, check that the power cabling is arranged like a star network & not a ring network, and perhaps try a line conditioner or ground lift.

[unfiltered37]

Yeah, there is no way it should be that noisy. Post a clip please. And are you talking about -60 and 0db digital or analog? It looks like to me, though I don't have one, that the noise source can't be turned off, only down, so it may be leakage.

Also check the signal going out from the phatty, before it hits the soundcard for the second time. Run it straight into a speaker and see if you get the same noise issues.

[josh]

Wesley is right.

Plus check:
- resonance is set to 0
- there is no ongoing filter modulation.

The Little Phatty manual states that with volume sustain and release at max and decay under 12h it's possible to get an infinite volume envelope. I guess it's the same with the SubPhatty...

To be checked.

Checked

Verify your AC wiring is not creating a ground loop -- make sure everything is plugged into the same outlet, check that the power cabling is arranged like a star network & not a ring network, and perhaps try a line conditioner or ground lift.

Yeah, there is no way it should be that noisy. Post a clip please. And are you talking about -60 and 0db digital or analog? It looks like to me, though I don't have one, that the noise source can't be turned off, only down, so it may be leakage.

Also check the signal going out from the phatty, before it hits the soundcard for the second time. Run it straight into a speaker and see if you get the same noise issues.

Wouldnt this all be irrelvant though, considering when im just recording my sub phattys synth sounds its all fine with an unnoticeable noisefloor (typical -97db or there abouts and the noise source is def off then and when im running stuff through). Its only when im recording outside sources through the input that i get the incredibly high noisefloor? correct if im wrong though. Ill attach a picture in the next post of the noisefloor in ableton

[josh]

So thats the noise floor with the filter open, Input at 4 and multidrive all the way up, and when i play the sound im running through the subphatty it would hit at 0db. and ive tried lowering the volumes at all the stages before the subphatty output and recording a hell quiet signal then cranking it up with a utility in ableton and still the same noise floor level.
Ive tried running drums from my computer through the subphatty, Ive tried running my microkorg through the subphatty, my ipod and its all about the same noise floor level.

[stiiiiiiive]

Hey Josh.

Well, I've read again because that:

multidrive all the way up

... seemed to contains the answer.

The Multidrive is a feedback feature, it's logical it induces some noise amplification. However I would not dare state any number here. When you play the synth itself, the amplitude envelope only opens when you press a key, that is when you expect to hear some sound. This very sound is certainly covering any noise coming from the mixer stage, including the Multidrive effect.

When using the input configuration, you make the oscillators silent. Consequently nothing but the signal you are sending in is hiding the proper noise of the electronics inside (hey, this is analogue baby ) and you can hear it. Try this: with the same settings, remove the dummy jack from GATE CV in and press a key. I bet you can hear the said noise, shaped by the amplitude envelope.

If diminishing the levels before does not make a big difference, try increasing them while lowering the input setting in the synth. This may allow a wider dynamic range.

I would use a finely tuned noie gate afterwards, if getting a dirty dirstorted processing is not what you're looking for.

Oh, and if figures matter, I think you can contact Moog tech support for decimal accurate enlightment.

[josh]

Hey Josh.

Well, I've read again because that:

multidrive all the way up

... seemed to contains the answer.

The Multidrive is a feedback feature, it's logical it induces some noise amplification. However I would not dare state any number here. When you play the synth itself, the amplitude envelope only opens when you press a key, that is when you expect to hear some sound. This very sound is certainly covering any noise coming from the mixer stage, including the Multidrive effect.

When using the input configuration, you make the oscillators silent. Consequently nothing but the signal you are sending in is hiding the proper noise of the electronics inside (hey, this is analogue baby ) and you can hear it. Try this: with the same settings, remove the dummy jack from GATE CV in and press a key. I bet you can hear the said noise, shaped by the amplitude envelope.

If diminishing the levels before does not make a big difference, try increasing them while lowering the input setting in the synth. This may allow a wider dynamic range.

I would use a finely tuned noie gate afterwards, if getting a dirty dirstorted processing is not what you're looking for.

Oh, and if figures matter, I think you can contact Moog tech support for decimal accurate enlightment.

Sweet, all makes sense now.
Thanks for the input party people.