Sub Phatty Editor - beta test feeedback

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Amos
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Re: Sub Phatty Editor - beta test feeedback

Post by Amos » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:50 pm

nofuturenocore wrote: Release is ignoring all modification in Panel Mode. ( It's working correctly in preset mode, and if I put it on a value in preset mode and after that going to Panel Mode it's the same value that I hear in Panel Mode, but no way to modify it in Panel mode.)
There is a "release on/off" parameter; somehow it got turned off, in the panel sound. I'm not sure how this happened.

Do a "initialize sound" while the panel sound is active, or do "initialize globals" to fix.

The other things, about the editor becoming out of sync when switching to active panel mode... at the moment, the editor is not aware of Panel Mode. The Sub Phatty doesn't send out any MIDI signal to indicate that Panel mode is active... I will need to add something like this, and the editor will also need some new behavior. This is an unfortunate oversight, and I thank you for bringing it to my attention! I think we may need to wait for an incremental update to fix it.

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misterpete
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Re: Sub Phatty Editor - beta test feeedback

Post by misterpete » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:27 pm

OK ~ definitely getting the "Hardware Disconnected" error in the AU and standalones with BELKIN USB hub
not sure exactly how but suspect it is the plugging/unplugging and configuring and reconfiguring within Logic

once i got the error tried switching USB cables and powering on/off etc but only a restart and actual plugging the USB directly into Mac fixed it - and allowed me to apply firmware update
once that USB connection is gone it's gone in all versions and SysEx Librarian too
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nofuturenocore
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Re: Sub Phatty Editor - beta test feeedback

Post by nofuturenocore » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:37 pm

Amos wrote:
nofuturenocore wrote: Release is ignoring all modification in Panel Mode. ( It's working correctly in preset mode, and if I put it on a value in preset mode and after that going to Panel Mode it's the same value that I hear in Panel Mode, but no way to modify it in Panel mode.)
There is a "release on/off" parameter; somehow it got turned off, in the panel sound. I'm not sure how this happened.

Do a "initialize sound" while the panel sound is active, or do "initialize globals" to fix.

The other things, about the editor becoming out of sync when switching to active panel mode... at the moment, the editor is not aware of Panel Mode. The Sub Phatty doesn't send out any MIDI signal to indicate that Panel mode is active... I will need to add something like this, and the editor will also need some new behavior. This is an unfortunate oversight, and I thank you for bringing it to my attention! I think we may need to wait for an incremental update to fix it.

Okay Thanks Amos, was becoming really mad today, don't even know that there was this option about the release.

Edit: 1.3.5 solve this problem about release On/OFF. Thanks.

MR Pete for your problem about hardware disconnected I've got the same problem several times but I still do not understand from what :( I try to use HUb and direct USB port with no changes :( Sometimes it works sometimes not, very randomly.

Re-Edit:

I saw that when I record a new clip and play note on the SubP in Ableton Live, there is a lot of parameters which automatically record automation without touching any of them.
When I record audio from the SubPhatty into an audio channel, the first note is often ignore and I get a dirty sound instead. I'll make some screen shots when I go back from work to show you that two things.

moogalieri
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Re: Sub Phatty Editor - beta test feeedback

Post by moogalieri » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:36 pm

How much longer until the editor and firmware are ready to be "officially" available to the masses?

nofuturenocore
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Re: Sub Phatty Editor - beta test feeedback

Post by nofuturenocore » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:48 pm

Moogalieri:

Hello,
Like Amos said multiples times, ~ 10 - 15 days or more depending of the numbers of bugs that are still there and the difficult for fixing them, and the last features asked by the users.

Amos:

Hello,

- The problem that I had with the first note making weird sound of being not played is not a problem from the Sub Phatty but a problem of Ableton Live, I saw a post on the Ableton forum about that.

- Sometimes I still have some stuck note happening, I still do not understand from what it comes but it doesn't happen often, a reboot of the SubP solve the problem .

- Sometimes there are some problems with the "LFO Rate Range" which refuse to go to the last postion ( 1 to 1000 hz ) but I don't know if it's coming from me or the Editor / Firmware itself. I'll do some intensive tweaks this WE to see that.

- Midiporthandler didn't launch by itself one time on ~ 50 times, but I think this is a local problem that happen.

A part this for me all is working correctly for me I think.

Thanks.



PS:

A little song made with the SubP ( A part the Drums and the White Noise ) : Here

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misterpete
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Re: Sub Phatty Editor - beta test feeedback

Post by misterpete » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:21 pm

Just installed Logic Pro X on my Mountain Lion laptop and reinstalled the Fireface 800 drivers for the latest OSX

Not much change here ~ automation is recorded and plays back as MIDI events and audio but not turning dials on screen during playback (just during recording)...
also getting hardware disconnected from the standard AU...
all the apple plug-ins are now scrollable ~ haven't confirmed other 3rd party software but at the moment this version of SUB-PHATTY editor is not... also need to double check and confirm that I have the latest AU builds here on the laptop...
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Amos
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Re: Sub Phatty Editor - beta test feeedback

Post by Amos » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:00 pm

nofuturenocore wrote:A little song made with the SubP ( A part the Drums and the White Noise ) : Here
very nice! I like especially the middle section with layers of melody and echo... :)

so, I'm back from holiday, and there have been some small changes and fixes to the Editor while I was away.
I don't have a new build yet, but I'll have one this week.

Is there anyone who is testing the Sub Phatty editor for whom it is absolutely not working?
Are there any remaining "critical bugs" that should prevent a v1.0 release?

let me know, thanks :)

Rokatansky
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Re: Sub Phatty Editor - beta test feeedback

Post by Rokatansky » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:14 am

Hi Amos

VST not working at all inside Cubase 7.0.5 64 Windows 7 64.


Regards

Amos
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Re: Sub Phatty Editor - beta test feeedback

Post by Amos » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:44 pm

OK, further Cubase testing is getting underway.

Next question:

I’m still trying to determine if it really makes sense to include the “virtual-instrument” version of the plugin as well as the “effect” version.

My thinking is that DAWs treat instrument and effect plugins differently, and in some DAW it might be easier to use the VI version of the plugin editor as opposed to the effect version. However I'm not personally proficient with enough DAWs to do a really broad survey myself.

Generally speaking, it seems to work best to have one MIDI track sending MIDI directly to your Sub Phatty, and then one audio track receiving the audio from the Sub… and then put the editor plugin (effect version) on the audio track. Now you can use your DAW’s parameter automation tools to draw automation for any parameter of the editor plugin and it will output MIDI to the synth… or sequence program changes…

But in fact there are a ton of other ways to do it, for instance in Ableton Live you can use an external instrument device on a MIDI track and put the editor plugin in series after the external instrument on the same track. If you want to record knob-turning and have it affect the plugin, then you might need to manually “map” the MIDI output from the synth’s knobs, to the plugin parameters, using your DAW’s remote mapping abilities.

It can be a bit complicated. Or, maybe not. Please let me know your impressions.

So far I think I have one person reporting that perhaps the VI version is more useful in Logic... not a lot of other feedback considering how many folks are on the beta-testing list at this point. Thanks for any additional replies.

Rokatansky
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Re: Sub Phatty Editor - beta test feeedback

Post by Rokatansky » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:39 pm

For Cubase VI is the choice IMO.
I found a little bit odd to treat a synthesizer like an effect and reminds me the complex way that Rekon audio handles their synth editors.
The best approach should be to get as close as possible as Access handles the TI which is pretty elegant and simple.
Another good editor example is the Korg R3 in which case loading the VI allows full control of the R3 inside Cubase without the need of insert any extra midi or audio channels.

I ignore if this is possible in the analog domain, but as long as the editor gets solid stability, everybody will be happy.

Cheers

jasonduerr
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Re: Sub Phatty Editor - beta test feeedback

Post by jasonduerr » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:16 pm

I am 99% interested in the editor as a librarian.

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misterpete
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Re: Sub Phatty Editor - beta test feeedback

Post by misterpete » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:34 pm

How does the Access do that? ~ can you please explain?
Rokatansky wrote:The best approach should be to get as close as possible as Access handles the TI which is pretty elegant and simple.
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misterpete
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Re: Sub Phatty Editor - beta test feeedback

Post by misterpete » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:55 pm

Image
HERE's the automation parameters for the SubPhatty in a channel strip in the brand new Logic Pro X running under Mountain Lion on my MacBook Pro

In both Logic Pro 9 and LPX I am finding both VI and FX versions are equally useful though neither will actually playback MIDI 'automatically' in realtime — You can record a MIDI track in with the VI version ~ and then drag the resulting recorded MIDI onto an External MIDI track to rerecord a new audio take — what's missing from this is SubPhatty dials/knobs will not reflect the changes onscreen or hardware during playback — but as previously reported the events are there in recorded Event Lists...


Amos wrote:I’m still trying to determine if it really makes sense to include the “virtual-instrument” version of the plugin as well as the “effect” version.

My thinking is that DAWs treat instrument and effect plugins differently, and in some DAW it might be easier to use the VI version of the plugin editor as opposed to the effect version. However I'm not personally proficient with enough DAWs to do a really broad survey myself.

Generally speaking, it seems to work best to have one MIDI track sending MIDI directly to your Sub Phatty, and then one audio track receiving the audio from the Sub… and then put the editor plugin (effect version) on the audio track. Now you can use your DAW’s parameter automation tools to draw automation for any parameter of the editor plugin and it will output MIDI to the synth… or sequence program changes…

But in fact there are a ton of other ways to do it, for instance in Ableton Live you can use an external instrument device on a MIDI track and put the editor plugin in series after the external instrument on the same track. If you want to record knob-turning and have it affect the plugin, then you might need to manually “map” the MIDI output from the synth’s knobs, to the plugin parameters, using your DAW’s remote mapping abilities.

It can be a bit complicated. Or, maybe not. Please let me know your impressions.

So far I think I have one person reporting that perhaps the VI version is more useful in Logic... not a lot of other feedback considering how many folks are on the beta-testing list at this point. Thanks for any additional replies.
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Salvator
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Re: Sub Phatty Editor - beta test feeedback

Post by Salvator » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:09 pm

Rokatansky wrote: VST not working at all inside Cubase 7.0.5 64 Windows 7 64.
Regards
Hello Rokatansky,

Please make sure that the Sub Phatty in not set as 'active' MIDI input device in Cubase's Peripherals configuration.
When it's active for Cubase, the Sub Phatty MIDI device will be unavailable for other apps, and also for the plugin (which handle the Midi Device like an app).

Do the plugin works once unchecked the SubPhatty in Cubase's peripheral ?
This has been working fine for me with windows 7 64 bits, Cubase 7.0.2, and plugin Sub Phatty Editor (x64).dll

If you need to "share" a midi device on windows, please refer to the trick with MIDI OX and LoopMidi that I mentioned above in this thread.

All the best,
Salvator

Amos
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Re: Sub Phatty Editor - beta test feeedback

Post by Amos » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:46 pm

misterpete wrote:what's missing from this is SubPhatty dials/knobs will not reflect the changes onscreen or hardware during playback — but as previously reported the events are there in recorded Event Lists...
The Sub Phatty Editor GUI responds to MIDI, and to host automation. When you record the knob movements to a MIDI track and then play it back, you're sending that MIDI to the synth... not to the Sub Phatty Editor, by default. That's why the GUI isn't responding.

There are a number of ways to change this up, I think -- you could use your DAW's mapping function to manually map each sub phatty knob to its corresponding control in the editor plugin... which you don't normally need to do, but if you do so then you could record the knob moves as controller automation (of the plugin parameters) as opposed to recording a straight MIDI track.

Alternatively, you could route the output of your MIDI track to the editor plugin, instead of sending that MIDI directly to the synth. if you turn on "echo MIDI from host" in the plugin preferences, then the MIDI notes and controller data from your recorded track will be passed along via the editor's MIDI output connection. The only flaw in this last scheme is that VST devices aren't sent actual MIDI clock from their host, so you don't get the host clock output echoed out the editor's MIDI output. we would need to add a conversion from VST timing messages to MIDI clocks.

As yet another alternative, I could add a firmware option to output MIDI CC data on whatever channel the editor is using, in response to MIDI CC control from the outside world. If the editor was used carefully, this would allow the Sub Phatty to keep the editor always up to date... but it introduces a new possibility for MIDI feedback which is probably best avoided.

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