Sub Phatty beta firmware - final bug roundup

[grailtone]

Installed 1.3.5 and installed...hoping that it might fix my funky OSC 2.

Nope.

So, I run the note calibration. All is well and the oscillators can stay in tune with each other. Until I hit Activate Panel. No matter where OSC 2 Frequency is set, it jumps almost a half step sharp no matter what. Then I can get it "close" to in tune, but, this doesn't translate across octaves.

Also, now if I hit Octave Up/Down, it retriggers the note. I was able to hold a note and transpose it before, making the glide a nice option to slide up an octave for a lead or whatever.

Additionally, if I Hard Synch OSC 2, it drops out entirely during a sweep of the OSC 2 Frequency knob. Or, if I change the wave shape, it drops out while I'm holding a note.

Is my OSC 2 toast?

I'm thinking not because my presets are still in tune.

I have a shows coming up and this is my primary controller/lead synth at this point because of the sound and portability. It'd kill me to have to send it back.

Suggestions???

Thanks!

-Will

[grailtone]

Update: Octave button issues are resolved sometimes by turning the power off and on.

[subb]

Maybe you changed the osc 2 beat frequency? Go to hidden panel mode and turn the osc 2 freq. knob +7, - 7 and then set it as close to zero as possible.

For the octave shift, notes should retrigger when you press the buttons.

[grailtone]

When I said retrigger, I should have said that it was almost making a blipping noise unrelated to the envelope...except the release time stayed the same. Seems ok now.

I'll double check the beat frequency. If I understand that function correctly, it should keep the beats consistent throughout the range, whereas in this situation, the tuning issues become more severe as I switch octaves. That may be a good workaround for now though! Thanks!

[MuzzFuzz]

... In his review of the SubP in the June issue of Sound on Sound magazine, Gordon Reid points out that in his observation, the Master volume control is in series with the Headphone volume control. So of course the Master needs to be turned up to hear the headphones, and therefore the main output is audible too.

Since the Master volume sends controller data, I'm wondering if there's data being sent to an internal amplifier somewhere that affects the headphone output when clearly it shouldn't, or if the SubP is hardwired this way?

Can Amos or anyone else shed any light on this please?

I think is is very normal, that the headphone volume is always depending on the master volume. The master volume is the parameter to adjust the relative levels of patches (as the mixer levels are used for filter distortion often). And this should be like this when using the headphones too, other wise some patches will blow your phones off your head and others would be to quite.
And when do you use CC#7 to adjust the volume of a synth external via MIDI? In live situations only seldom. At least this is what I do and see most often. And in the studio you will use the monitors or the headphones feed by the mixer's monitor output and not the headphones output of a single synth. And then you would here a change in volume on a professional mixer board with a monitor mix also.
So I think the Sub Phatty is like most other synth I own that include MIDI CCs for their volume.

The headphones are mainly for listening to your synth when there is no other monitor available.

Hi Till,

Yeah that's a point, although I admit it's not what I had in mind. For discussion's sake, I don't think Gordon Reid would mind me quoting this paragraph from the review:

"The headphone socket is located within the output section on the control panel, but this is one area in which the Sub Phatty is inferior to its predecessors, because the Master on/off switch is no longer present. Worse still, the master level control is in series with the headphone volume knob, so if the master is turned down to protect the audience during tuning or editing, the headphones are silent. This is daft, and I have no idea why Moog did it."

So I am coming at it from the point of view of someone who has never owned an analog synth with patch memories before (it's been about thirty years since I last owned any genuine analog!), which is why that second-last sentence matched my thinking.

So I'd still appreciate some input from Amos or others regarding whether their thinking was the same as yours or if it's deserving of more attention. What I've described is just the way I'd like the SubP to behave. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned.

[Amos]

MuzzFuzz:the headphone level is a passive control, and it is indeed wired in series after the master volume. This was a cost-saving maneuver as it reduces the number of VCA circuits, versus having fully-independent main-output and headphone levels. The Sub Phatty retails for a decent amount less than the Little Phatty, and this difference in the output section is a part of that cost/value equation.

grailtone if you do a "init global settings" function, it will also reset all the hidden parameters of the "active panel" sound, which will probably sort out whatever unusual tuning behavior the oscillator 2 freq knob is doing. If it only affects active panel mode, then a reset will almost certainly fix it.

[MuzzFuzz]

[quote="Amos"]MuzzFuzz:the headphone level is a passive control, and it is indeed wired in series after the master volume. This was a cost-saving maneuver as it reduces the number of VCA circuits, versus having fully-independent main-output and headphone levels. The Sub Phatty retails for a decent amount less than the Little Phatty, and this difference in the output section is a part of that cost/value equation.

Thanks Amos, I appreciate that. All the other synths I've had either had independent controls or one for both.

It's not deal breaker as I'm finding more and more that I'm listening via my audio interface anyway. It's just something that came up as I've been trying out each firmware update.

[Amos]

OK this is really, truly the next release firmware version, unless someone can find a bug I haven't fixed yet.

http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/su ... _1_3_8.syx

Updated release notes:
http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/su ... EAD-ME.txt

fixed in this version, real Mod Wheel value on boot (when Preset Mod Wheel is OFF).

Somebody mentioned the Amp EG Multi-Trigger or Reset parameters not working right... they seem OK to me;
now I can't find who it was that brought this to my attention to know if it was an old report or something more recent. Anyway, all seems OK there, unless I'm really missing something.

cheers,

Amos

[robml]

Somebody mentioned the Amp EG Multi-Trigger or Reset parameters not working right... they seem OK to me;

hey amos,
it was me

i have two presets in bank 1, patch 1 and 2
patch 1 is all knobs turned left, all buttons off
patch 2 is all knobs turned right, all buttons on

with patch 1, when i turn everything off and then press and hold the button bank 1 / patch 1 to save - the following happens
- filter envelope fast decay turns on
- amplifier envelope fast decay turns on

with patch 2, when i turn everything on and then press and hold the button bank 1 / patch 2 to save - the following happens
- filter envelope fast decay turns off
- amplifier envelope fast decay turns off
- amplifier envelope multi-trig turns off

looks like you've got some 1's where there should be 0's and some 0's where there should be 1's

cheers

[bandmasta]

Hi Amos

I updated to 1.3.8.

I found one problem which is active panel midi cc 95.

I use Ableton Live with Mac. Let's say I send a cc 95 "on" to sub from

Live. Sub Phatty changes to Active panel mode. It works well. However,

it does not go back to the preset when I send "OFF" message. The sound is still avtive panel mode even if

Active panel light is off.

One more thing. When you push the active panel button on the Sub Phatty, patch light is off.

Only bank and Active panel lights are on. But, bank, patch, and Active panel lights are on when you send

cc 95 message to SP.

[sbell.sd]

At least one more bug...

I sent the following email to moog service
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 9:49 PM

I'm trying to send 14 bit midi data from the sub phatty (via the 5 Pin DIN MIDI output) to a nord g2 midi input. It only receiving the MSB midi data. I also tried this with another midi input device and it also only received the MSB midi data. I have tried this many times--and have followed the instructions to put the sub phatty into 14 bit midi mode. I assume that 2 midi messages would be sent out...say for the main volume knob a CC 7 and a CC 39 message. Any ideas/help?

The response was

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the bug report, I will forward this on to our engineering guys and let you know what they say.

I just tested and verified that here in my shop, 14 bit does indeed not appear to be working.

Thanks,
ANDY HUGHES
MOOG TECH SUPPORT
MOOG MUSIC INC.

[sbell.sd]

Is this a bug or by design???

I sent this email...
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 1:17 AM

To: techsupport
Subject: [Tech Support] sub phatty control voltage input for pitch

With a 16 bit digital to analog converter (DAC) connected into the pitch control voltage input (and a 4 3/4 digit multimeter), I am getting unexpected jumps in the pitch of the sub phatty. I increment the DAC output, slowly, each increment is about .0003 volts, but the sub phatty doesn't change pitch until about 40 increments (plus or minus 5 increments) (about .012 volts), thereafter the sub phatty doesn't pitch until an additional 40 increments, and so on. This behavior is similar for decrementing the voltage.

Note that I have tested this DAC with my minimoog (which was modified to have a separate control voltage input for each of the 3 oscillators) and the minimoog follows the 16 bit DAC smoothly.

I am hoping that this is a bug with the sub phatty, and it was not designed to digitize the pitch input control voltage to 1 cent, since I am trying to achieve 16 bit accuracy. If it digitized to 14 bit, I could understand and accept that, but the pitch control voltage accuracy seems to be 11 or 12 bits or 1 cent.

This is a small table with the voltage and DAC increments and decrements--when the sub phatty jumps.
voltage incremental count
--------------------------------------
0.9950 -43
1.0069 - 4
1.0170 +29
1.0044 -12
0.9907 -57
1.0017 -21
1.0152 +23
1.0045 -13
0.9904 -57
1.0023 -19
1.0153 +23

This was the response...

Thank you for the feedback, I am passing this along to our engineers for review and if they have any information I will relay that to you!

Thanks,
ANDY HUGHES
MOOG TECH SUPPORT
MOOG MUSIC INC.

[MuzzFuzz]

Hi Amos and All,

Firstly apologies in advance if this covered elsewhere or still a known issue (I couldn't find anything similar to this in a search), but I'm wondering if the Panic function (pressing both Octave buttons at once) is working as expected.

I've just upgraded to 1.3.8 and I'm finding that (with Local On) no matter how I try to use Panic, it does nothing. It also doesn't matter if I press them simultaneously or press and hold one then the other. I've tried 1) holding a key with sustained tone sounding; 2) killing a sound with a long decay; and 3) "sticking" a note by performing either 1) or 2) and pulling the USB plug while the note is sounding. All variations just leave me with a stuck note.

Is there any progress to report on this?

Cheers,
Murray

[Amos]

I'm wondering if the Panic function (pressing both Octave buttons at once) is working as expected.

I must have just recently broken it... thanks for the report, I'll put it right in the next update.
-Amos

edit: s.bell -- if you adjust the voltage too slowly you'll get a more course response due to a "box check" routine in the firmware which is designed to reject noise. i'll work on this, see if I can improve the performance a bit.

[HumanByDesign]

Mac OS 10.8.4
Logic Express 9.1.8
64bit
Sub P. Firmware 1.3.8
Editor ver. 1.0.1

Firmware update:
I've noticed that a physical restart is required after updating to 1.3.8 or else the Release param. doesn't function at all for Env or Amp.

Standalone Editor:
Instead of an asterisk, a Tilda now appears at the end of the name, upon saving on synth.