Interesting model D / Voyager comparision

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sunny pedaal
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Re: Interesting model D / Voyager comparision

Post by sunny pedaal » Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:32 am

i agree with all above, just one thing struck me: it also seems the mod reduces the ( muddy ) bass part a bit. less bass after the mod.
how come? and can it be adpted some way ( is it due to a higher cutoff and resonace offset, or any other explanation ?)
that's the only thing i found interesting, for the rest it is a upgrade certainly .

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Re: Interesting model D / Voyager comparision

Post by EricK » Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:17 pm

What exactly does this slewrate mod do?
I listened to both of the soundwaves on my regular mac speakers and I didn't notice a difference, it was a bit brighter but still didn't seem to capture that glory of the D. Maybe if I heard some basslines it would be more apparent but Im sure theres something Im not hearing.

I did hear the second was brighter though..


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sunny pedaal
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Re: Interesting model D / Voyager comparision

Post by sunny pedaal » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:50 am

i have to repeat again: i didn't try to compare the voyager with the model-d. ( they are simple complete different instruments and the claim the voyager = a model-d is not complete reality )
maybe i should have opened a new topic, however it just came to happen that questions were asked on the difference between modded and unmodded voyagers.

when not hearing the difference (?):
one voyager is recorded on only the left channel, the other on only the right channel. at the same time
so you should constantly compare with changing the pan or by switching the left-channel on while switching the right-channel off, and vise versa.
that way a clear difference should be noticable, providing your "computerspeakers are speakers".

i really would appreciate some info/meanings of different people on this , as it might be a way to improve the sound quality of the voyager, that is if we can agree on the subject and results.

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Re: Interesting model D / Voyager comparision

Post by goldphinga » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:02 am

I hear the difference-clearer top end with that sizzle that i love, and the slight mud in the low mids is gone too. What i would like to hear is a separate file for each, one for the modded and one for the undmodded-ie not just left and right on the same file. Also full quality wavs would be great so i can compare on my focals in the studio.
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sunny pedaal
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Re: Interesting model D / Voyager comparision

Post by sunny pedaal » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:12 am

the 24bit 44.1khz files can also be downloaded, links are provided before.
when you have a audioeditor, simply make two monofiles of it . the voyagers were recorded in mono/ only left output.
i don't have an opportunity soon to rerecord again two voyagers, as i only have one myself, so...



24bit44.1khz link:
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/230633 ... bas_re.zip
(link will be deleted when no downloads for a week or so, if anyone knows another free side to upload..)

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Re: Interesting model D / Voyager comparision

Post by sunny pedaal » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:17 am

link still available for week maximum.
so if anybody appreciates raw 24 comparison aiff, please take opportunity now.
i, on my part am open to meanings, suggestions if upgrade is useful

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Re: Interesting model D / Voyager comparision

Post by Neekau » Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:13 am

sunny pedaal wrote:i agree with all above, just one thing struck me: it also seems the mod reduces the ( muddy ) bass part a bit. less bass after the mod.
It's obvious at the beginning of "preset 1", but on the others i'm not sure.
Anyway the result is great, not that far from what you can obtain inserting a BBE Sonic Stomp in the osc/filter loop...
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Re: Interesting model D / Voyager comparision

Post by museslave » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:43 am

MC wrote:So the sonic differences are due to the frequency responses between the 13700 and the discrete VCAs, and also to the mild overdrive of the discrete VCAs.
This entire post was absolutely wonderful to read. It's so nice to have a very metric demonstration and explanation for the differences we hear every day.
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Re: Interesting model D / Voyager comparision

Post by Christopher Winkels » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:46 am

Maybe I missed a link somewhere (if so, would someone care to point me in the direction of it?), but is there any additional information on the Linhard mod?

A scan of the Lintronics site mentions "Voyager modifications" on the home page, but there doesn't appear to be any links to point one in the directin of what's done or how much it costs.

The idea of the mod interests me because (and I know this is no small amount of heresy) I've never found that my Voyager Old School sounded as "good" as my Little Phatty.

Does it have more flexible programming than the LP? Yes.
A high quality feel? Absolutely.

But it doesn't have the juiciness of the LP. It lacks the sizzle, the squidginess, the musicality, and the "full spectrum" nature embodied in the LP. It also sounds (and I'm searching for the correct words here) a "harder", more fatiguing sound that discards some of the LP's airiness. That's really my only complaint about it. Well, that and the lack of a master octave switch and the inability to individually apply PWM to some oscillators but not others. A quick and easy mod to bring the timbre closer into line with that the LP outputs would be a welcome addition.

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Re: Interesting model D / Voyager comparision

Post by sunny pedaal » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:57 pm

just send him a mail ?

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Re: Interesting model D / Voyager comparision

Post by LivePsy » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:32 pm

Christopher Winkels wrote:It lacks the sizzle, the squidginess, the musicality, and the "full spectrum" nature
That's how I feel about the Voyager vs mini. Nicely put! But I think the Voyager has musicality, just not some of the signature of the mini. I'm intrigued that the LP has that sound.
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sunny pedaal
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Re: Interesting model D / Voyager comparision

Post by sunny pedaal » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:48 pm

so what about the audiocomparison , you think it gets more "the feeling"
i myself am satisfied with the change, but i'm very interested in meanings of "neutrals"
after the mods ( also 2 switches to indivualy put off the pwm of osc 2 and 3), i play the voyager with almost the same feeling and joy ,as the multimoog.
(but then afcourse with 3 osc, a touchscreen and memory's.)

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Christopher Winkels
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Re: Interesting model D / Voyager comparision

Post by Christopher Winkels » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:56 pm

sunny pedaal wrote:just send him a mail ?

Yeah, I suppose I could. :lol:

I was just hoping I was just "missing" something from his website.

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BrianK
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Re: Interesting model D / Voyager comparision

Post by BrianK » Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:25 am

I think it's a little unfair to compare the Voyager sonically to the early R.A.Moog Minimoog as a reference, as MOST Model D's we know are not this early oscillator circuit or filter. Most/later Minimoogs (serial 2-7000) or the last ones (11,000 etc) are very different sounding: Many reasons, many circuit changes. "The Model D Minimoog" was not ONE instrument design, it's not - it really was a Model D E F G H I J K etc. as the changes came in across 13 years or so. Look at Corvettes from the 60s to the 70s - not the same car.

- The Voyager also has a "compromise" to make the oscillators sweep smoothly between waveforms (a great feature, but cannot do that and match the waves exactly wired into the Minimoog D versions).

- I agree that I find the sparkle on EARLY Minimoogs greater than on Voyager but the Voyager seems to have a fuller bass range.
- This is what I also hear on the LATER Minimoogs, which also sound darker and thicker than the early Model Ds to me.
- It is/was a trade-off - you cannot have sizzling treble and the fullest bass, nor vice versa. True for guitar sounds - you cannot have slashing/ripping treble with a "warm" tone. Simply try raising the lowpass filter freq and see how the bass seems to recede.

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MC
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Re: Interesting model D / Voyager comparision

Post by MC » Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:27 pm

The oscillator cards all sound the same.

My unit (#1053) has the 3046 card.

I've played Audities #1001 with the original discrete card and it sounded exactly like mine.

I've played Roger Luther's #1009 with the ua726 card and it sounded exactly like mine.

I've played BrianK's mid-series minimoog with the same 3046 card as mine and it sounded very different.

The differences are the filter. The first few hundred minimoogs had matched transistor pairs in all the filter ladder pairs. Every RAMoog minimoog with the matched pairs I played sounded identical, even with different oscillator cards. On later instruments they changed the circuit where only the top and bottom pairs were matched. The resonant color is noticeably different. Schematics from both periods confirm this. That is why later minimoogs sound different, even from unit to unit.

Some of the revision changes were different mix resistors for different overdrive to the filter. I intentionally lowered my mix levels to remove this variable from the equation. Most of the other revision changes were not related to the audio chain.

The color of the filter between my RAMoog and Voyager are very close, until you open them all the way. I don't think the comparision is unfair and the experiment does illustrate the color that the minimoog VCA impacts on the sound with the filter wide open. If a musician wanted the resonant filter color of the early RAMoog minimoog, the Voyager is a good option. However I would not argue that you would hear a greater difference using the experiment with a later minimoog.
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