Voyager - KARMA, "The Silent Way" and Beyond!

[psyhead]

I had a similar realization with my Access Virus. It is a virtual analog, yet the "analog sounds" it emulated weren't what I liked or wanted to hear. That was really frustrating to me that such a beautiful synth with so many features couldn't make what I wanted. Then I started buying analog synthesizers (Arp Odyssey, MoogerFoogers, Korg MS-20, etc) and I instantly found what I was missing all along. I have since sold the Virus and never once wished I hadn't.

I had the exact same thing happen to me...i sold my virus just last week....i got my voyager OS 3 weeks after i bought the virus TI.they were my first hardware synths..i just could not look at the virus in the same light after that...even though i love experimental digital sounds the sound just lacked this depth that the voyager sound has..it did not sound that much better than any good vst synth..the wavetables were good fun but not worth $2100 which is what a voyager oldschool costs....the voyager was everything i hoped a hardware synth would feel and sound like...the virus was not...with the money from the virus ive just ordered a new semi modular Oberheim SEM and a Sherman Filterbank
Analog Goodness FTW


now i just need a nice analog polysynth...and maybe a waldorf for some wavetable action....and a modular effects rack....and...

[machinea]

I had a similar realization with my Access Virus. It is a virtual analog, yet the "analog sounds" it emulated weren't what I liked or wanted to hear. That was really frustrating to me that such a beautiful synth with so many features couldn't make what I wanted. Then I started buying analog synthesizers (Arp Odyssey, MoogerFoogers, Korg MS-20, etc) and I instantly found what I was missing all along. I have since sold the Virus and never once wished I hadn't.

You know it is good to hear this. I loved the virus c when I first heard it back in 2004. I was buying my kurzweil at the time and had the chance to play on it and the andromeda through excellent speakers. There were days I was sorry I bought the kurzweil instead because it isn't very immediately gratifying. Now that I have the moog and and the sampling option installed I keep going to the kurz more and more.

I also have always wondered if I should pick up an old desktop virus just to satisfy the lust I once had for it... maybe a really cheap used b or something but I can always think of better ways to spend it. That is 500 bucks towards the new SEM or a Future retro or cp251. I don't think there is much more digital I'm going to be doing in the future unless it excels in area I find myself interested in like the machinedrum.

[MarkM]

I think one needs to appreciate what sounds DO come out of a synth, be it digital or analogue. It all boils down to what kind of music you are creating. Since I produce ambient and experimental, it is not important for my digital synths to sound like an ARP, Moog, or whatever. I don't expect my Waldorf Q to sound like a Moog or any other analogue instrument. However, it makes wonderful Waldorf Q sounds that I find very useful for my purposes. If I was making Keith Emerson-like or Devo-like music, then I would not consider a digital synth.

[Lux_Seeker]

Mark:

I can't agree more with your comment. I now have a Voyager and a Korg M3 and I am not getting rid of either of them. I have stated elsewhere that I don't consider myself to be in either a digital or analogue camp and I think of the whole arguement in many ways to be conterproductive although I admit it may have sounded like that when I started this thread.

What do I beleive:

First, that analogue and digital are night and day. They are different animals. I spent the last few days delighting in the sounds coming from my new Voyager but I can also delight in the sounds coming from my M3 or soft synths. What I do believe is that they they powerful complement one another.

I go to the M3 for instrument sounds, beatiful pianos, organs, strrings, brass, vocals, you name it. Beautiful and not thin. They are samples so they sound like what they recorded from for the most part with some filtering and effects. But the analogue stuff on the M3, even the Radius which is an analogue emulator, does sound thin.

Now I can also run 16 layers of sound on the M3 with effects and have nothing crash or make nasty digital burb sounds (I love those). That being said, I can't get a keyboard to make the sounds that Absynth, FM8, Reaktor or some of my other soft synths make. So once again, its a mater of one complementing the other not necessarily being better than the other.

One of the things I want to do is use my M3 KARMA to sequence my Voyager and perpahs but some evolving soundscapes on my M3 pads. Lots of posiblities. I am a strong believer in cross beeding synthesizers including analogue and digital.

So take it or leave it, I llove both analogue and digital but not for the same reasons.

[cageswood]

Thanks Lux_Seeker for that info,i have both the Karma and Voyager,and it hadn't occurred to me to use the Karma function for that.Another universe to explore:)

[Lux_Seeker]

I think that the dichotomy between analogue and digital has resulted in some very fertile musical territory to be ignored and that is a shame. That is the joining of the worlds of digital and analogue. Lately, I have been inspired by products such as MOTU's "Volta" and Expert Sleepers "Silent Way".

I am a purist in the sense that I believe the audio signal and any voltage controls above the audio range should be kept in the analogue in analogue systems but the use of computers and other programs to produce LFOs, complex envelopes, gates and triggers I see only as an incredible enhancement to analogue synthesis and detract in no way from the analogue sound.

I find it amazing the number of sequencers out there, MIDI, dedicated CVs, modules, ect. that have been put on the market recently. A few come to mind:

Genoqs sequencers (classic edition of the Octopus is $3.700)
Native Instrument Maschine ($600)
Tenori-On ($1000)
Buchla Arbitrary Function Generator ($1,700)

Of course prices vary and some of these interfaces really are very nice but a full size touch screen and a computer program can be adequate substitutes and would probably cost less. Of course, the Lemur is a decent attempt at this but it is a dedicated control. I see no reason why this can't be substituted with a touch screen that would work with Windows or Mac and software.

Sequences are just triggers and there is no reason that a computer or something like KARMA can't control an analogue synthesis. Even if you have something as complex and expensive as say a Buchla 200, you can't tell if its sequenced from the Buchla Sequencer (which costs several hundred) or a computer program producing CV data and using a DC coupled autio interface or something like a Voyager with MIDI recieving note on messages from a sequencer like Albeton Live for example. Live has a lot of great ready made MIDI tools that will also work great with Voyager. KARMA, as I stated, is also another incredible sequencing tool that is far more flexible than any of the expensive hardware based tools.

So yes, the Voyager and KARMA can work well together but so can a whole lot of other things that a lot of artists who have digital equipment in their rig might already have. No one should be afraid to cross the streams.

[Bryan B]

For the record, I am not anti-digital. I love analog signal flow, voltage control and the sounds they make. I also love the abilities, memory, sound editing and control the digital spectrum offers just as much. As a simple preference I like analog keyboards much more than digital ones, with some exceptions like the Nord Electro.

I really want the best of all worlds.

As far as digital analog hybrid goes, I really love my Waldorf Pulse with 3 digital VCO's and an analog filter. It is a beast, sounds great, has patch memory and it is very reliable. I bought a Doepfer Pocket Control to add a bunch more knobs to it, which helps for tweakablility.

Volta is really great if you have a Mac and MOTU sound cards, but they are alienating at least 3/4's of their potential client base by not offering this for PC's or any sound card. They should have a little box you could buy to interface with it (for the non MOTU studios). I have the sound cards, but no mac.

Harvestman makes some great digital modular components.

When I started designing my own sequencer I soon realized how analog digital could be. There is no computer in it, but it uses a binary counter to control the steps with multiplexors. After readin some information online, I found out that IC's that I once associated with computers are really just shrunken circuits with components all made out of the same set of materials. Even my analog drum machines need a mini computer to keep memory and trigger the drum sounds. The lines can and do blur together when you start looking into these machines.

[Lux_Seeker]

Brian:

I suspect we are on much of the same page regarding analogue and digtial and wanting the best of both worlds. In fact, I would like to blend them as much as possible but in ways that are music and use the best from each analogue and digital.

Its interesting that you mention both "The Harvestman" and Waldorf's hyrbrid of digital oscillators and analogue filters. It seems to me that at a technical level oscillators could be digital without losing a whole lot. To be honest, I don't find raw oscillators all that interesting. For example, I can set maximum cutoff and filter spread (between low and high pass) on my Voyager and move the wave knob from triangle to narrow pulse and really not get that much variation in sound. I think what happens is that the ear get hit with a wide spectrum of higher order partials and its difficult to hear any subltlty. But pass a filter over it and then you hear the character.

However, I think that minor variations in waveforms mean very little. I have not heard any convincing arguements that they do but many soft synths will argue that there synth is better based on how close there waveforms are to the original. Filters are what adds a certain character. I see the oscillator as the block of marble from which the filter shapes it. The art is in the filter and its use and shaping by other modulators.

However, I agree with you that wavesequencing is very useful which Waldorf certainly put to good use in the wave. From what I hear, I think wavesequencing is far superior to additive synthesis. Effective sequences bring out a wonderful dynamic character to the sound that is more flexible than sampling but not artificial sounding (as I find additive synthesis).

[Christopher J. Boylan]

If you are a young, new to the industry keyboard player you have to know what you are getting into if you're thinking of buying a Voyager. It's not a cheap synth, and it's not for the timid. Voyager is an instrument designed for screaming leads and bass lines. It's MONOPHONIC - and this isn't a drawback, it's by design. You want something that plays chords? Don't buy a Voyager. That's not what it's for. Even though Voyager is designed as SUBTRACTIVE synthesis, you start with raw wave forms (as opposed to complex wave forms such as those produced from organic sound sources) like TRIANGLE, SAW and PULSE. From there you apply filtering, envelopes and modulation to shape your sound.

Just like it's predecessor the Minimoog, designing sounds and performing live with it is an art form all in it's own. Go to YouTube and search on things like "Rick Wakeman Minimoog", or other veteran artists. Watch them use a Minimoog for live performance. Flying one of these instruments is an art, and you have to know what you are doing to get the most out of it. Once you've accepted this, and you're willing to learn how Voyager works, a whole new world of electronic music will be opened to you. If you can get an old school keyboard player to turn his head and say to you, "Very cool! How'd you get that sound? Can I see that patch?", you've achieved greatness.

[nikola]

My M3 has some great pianos, electric pianos, organs and lots of instrument sounds.

great? have you ever heard real piano, real el. piano, or real organs ?
so does the virus sound great. to some, that is, not to you anymore ..

[spittingoutteeth]

Voyager is an instrument designed for screaming leads and bass lines.......Go to YouTube and search on things like "Rick Wakeman Minimoog", or other veteran artists.

I think quotes like this are limiting to the Moog as well. I think a lot of people have this misconception of the Moog as a relic that only Keith Emerson/Rick Wakemen wannabees use to play prog covers. In this respect, it's looked at as an outdated piece of gear, overpriced for nostalgia purposes.

Most of the people I know using Moogs are experimental musicians making some really cutting edge sounds. Moogs are great for drones, harsh noise and glitch (especially with the touchpad) and fantastic for dance music as well. While I agree that the Moog is great for proggy leads and funk bass, it's also well suited to more relevant modern musical styles.

[Christopher J. Boylan]

Spittingoutteeth is so right. I failed to mention that the original Minimoog is just as viable today as it was when it first came out, and that the Voyager is even more so with it's massive routing capabilities and other up-to-date improvements. Throw some Moogerfoogers in there and... OMG! The possibilities are endless.

I think what I was trying to say is that other keyboards are pretty much set in how each patch sounds, and every player that purchases that keyboard will have that sound. Yes, they're editable to an extent, but realistically speaking, they are all dealing with the same sounds - which isn't a bad thing! If you are composing a piece of music and the melody chord structure and rhythm are you concerns, than those keyboards will facilitate that perfectly.

But Voyager and others like them are the tools and doorways into the world of electronic music - which is a whole different world. Many times the musical element is secondary to the architecture of the sound - which is the concentration. And the Moog Voyager is a GREAT beginning to that world. And of course, when you add that to the keyboards with the more musical approach - and you blend conventional composition with electronic music - Ahhhhhhh. The world is your oyster.