Advice or Tips for a new Voyager owner/Anything will help!!!

Tips and techniques for Minimoog Analog Synthesizers
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Smokey5100
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Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 8:50 pm

Advice or Tips for a new Voyager owner/Anything will help!!!

Post by Smokey5100 » Wed Aug 06, 2003 9:23 pm

Whats up fellow Minimoog users/artists.I am a young rookie new to the whole analog synthesis concept.There is a lot I don't know about this board.I'm sure a lot of you have learned a lot over the years.Maybe you can give me some advice,lace me up with some game!I make primarily rap.How can I make some deep basses?Bernie Worrell type of basses?Wormy leads,etc?How would a expander module improve my voyager?Modular synthesis?How can I save a sound into a preset bank after I create one?How do I upgrade my operating system from 1.0 to 1.5?What will the new upgrade offer?Is it worth it?How do you load the operating software and new sounds/different sound banks?How does the midi work?I want to use it and connect it to my mpc2000xl.Does anybody here do that?I want to connect my voyager to my Triton studio and the mpc2000xl at the same time so I can use all of my equiptment,what midi cables go where and do I have to arm anything in the menus for it to work?Well thats all I can think of right now.I appreciate whatever advice/help I get,Thanks.

another fine day
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Post by another fine day » Thu Aug 07, 2003 8:05 am

Well hey, don't be mean....i love the enthusiasm, go for it, my man ! trouble is, there's just no space here for the complex replies your post needs, nor do we have the time. Just mess with it, you'll work it out. You may lose your hair in the process, though...all the best

TommyM
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Post by TommyM » Thu Aug 07, 2003 12:32 pm

Smokey 5100


I am new to the synth world. I got basic info about subtractive synth off the net. Before buying the Voyager I downloaded the manual and update info then studied it. I have been able find out the answers to all of the same kind of questions by reviewing this material. This stuff does not come easy to me .

Good Luck

Smokey5100
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Post by Smokey5100 » Thu Aug 07, 2003 1:16 pm

Thanks Tommy,I'll check it out.

mpulver
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Post by mpulver » Thu Aug 07, 2003 1:18 pm

Smokey5100 wrote:Damn,whats the point of a forum if nobody wants to help!I was always told it doesn't hurt to ask questions.If you want to help then please do so but if you don't save your sarcastic replies and leave some "space" for some actual help.Is it me or does everybody got a stick up their a$$ around here.No disrespect to the Moog staff.
Easy Smokey...

It isn't that no one wants to help, it's that you're asking for help in _everything_. Some of the people here on the forum are still learning how to get sounds that they hear in their heads to come out of their machines, and they've been doing it for 30 years!

If I read your message right, you're asking for help in:
  • How do you get deep bases
  • How do you get leads
  • How can you benefit from an "expander module"
  • What about modular synthesis
  • How do you save a sound
  • How do you upgrade the OS
  • What's in the upgrade
  • Is the upgrade worth it
  • How do you load the new OS
  • How do you load new sounds
  • How does MIDI work
  • How do you connect the Voyager to a MPC2000XL
  • How do you _integrate_ the Voyager in with a Triton and the MPC
That's a LOT of information to ask for, especially when some of it is in the manual that came with your machine or available online here, or has already been answered on the forum in other spots (use "search").

For example:
The question of "What's in the upgrade" can be answered by looking in the "Software" section for the Voyager. There's a "readme" file available for download which contains the release notes, which will answer this question. Specifically: http://moogmusic.com/detail.php?product ... 0&x=21&y=7

The upgrade being worth it or not is a question for you to answer, not us. Look at the readme and see if there are new features there that you'd like to have access to. The cost of the upgrade is zero, zip, nadda, so that aspect is out.

Then, saving sounds is actually covered in the manual.


Programming sounds is a science to some, and a happy accident to others. How much time do you want to invest in _learning_ about _synthesis_ and how what you hear translates to a synthesizer? One place to start would be this online tutorial: http://nmc.uoregon.edu/emi/ There are a number of ideas in this thread from another online forum from a couple of years ago: http://www.the-gas-station.com/messages ... stdays=999


Modular synthesis is a topic that could fill volumes on it's own... It can help people to answer this question if you let folks know what brought yoou to asking about it. Is it a buzz phrase that someone dropped and you're repeating it? Have you had exposure to a modular synth before? Are you curious because it's sometimes used as a marketing phrase?

What do you mean by the reference to an "expander module"? Do you mean another synthesizer or the CP-251 or VX-351?

MIDI is a complex topic, and can spawn many many side discussions. Mac or Windows? Do you have a MIDI interface now? You sayt you have an MPC and a Triton, are they connected now? What do you do to record performances on them?


I think that most folks will also want to see you be able to learn on your own, given a pointer in the right direction. A forum like this isn't about step-by-step hand-holding for EVERYTHING... That's very very difficult to do with the written word.

At this point, it may be worthwhile to look for a buddy that's been into MIDI and synths for a while and get some quality one-on-one time to get started. Having someone standing at your side and showing you how spining the filter frequency knob can affect a sound is worth PAGES of text here on the forum.


I hope that at least clears up some of why people are backing away from you versus coming to your aide. Your approach was much like a bomb going off, you're asking so many things from so many different angles that it's hard to get a grip on just where to start.

Mark

another fine day
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Post by another fine day » Sun Aug 10, 2003 10:47 am

For what its worth...with no axe to grind about any of it...I have an old story to tell that may of be of some use to you, Smokey.

My first synth was, and still is, an EDP Wasp, a basic yellow and black plastic thing with knobs on and a crude metal keyboard with the 'keys' painted on. It runs on batteries and has a 1-inch speaker built in. I played it on trains (freaking out the folk) and at punk gigs it would have beer poured on it to generate random sounds, ...but I digress.

The story is that I bought it through the post, never having even seen a synth before. I knew no-one who had one, and the manual was a 2-page excuse that said "the oscillator is the oscillator" and that was about it. i didn't have a f@£$ing clue....

So I plugged it in the hi-fi and messed with it, for 3 weeks(something you probably don't have the luxury for, right now....) and still didn't have a clue as to how and why it made the noises it did. Then I happened to turn a knob and out of nowhere I suddenly understood the concept of 'voice architecture' (as it happens.....I didn't think of it in those terms), not so much in terms of the Wasp itself, but in the fundamental nature of how (all) sound is constructed.

The damn thing literally LOOKED different, somehow the possible connections and modulations being super-imposed on the positioning of the knobs. And no, I was not taking drugs (that happened later...) i've spoken to quite a few fellow-synthesists about this, and most of them have had a similar"wake-up" experience, where quite suddenly they understood what the f@£$ is going on....and once its happened, you can apply it to any piece of gear out there, because in essence they're all the same....

Oscillator makes the noise, filter is the glorified eq off your hi-fi(basically)
envelopes shape how it happens(short and snappy or long and languorous), and that LFO thing makes it all wobble. On the Voyager it all there in front of you, on your MPC its a chunk of code and its all there in the software. But its basically the same stuff. I could go on(for hours) but that isn't the point of this post.

I'm just telling a story and hoping it may be of some use to you, (and hoping that you'll hit that "aha!" point really soon...)

With great respect, give your boy a kiss (from me as well), then go mess with that beast. I've never found a better way, and I've been doing this for 24 years...I reckon you'll be back here in a year's time telling us old fart's how it's done.

See you on MTV,( if that's where you want to be...)

respect

afd

Smokey5100
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Post by Smokey5100 » Sun Aug 10, 2003 8:38 pm

Mike,I currently use my MPC2000 as my primary sequencer.I use a Triton Studio,Minimoog Voyager and a Roland Fantom but I use them seperately.I want to start incorporating all of my boards into a song.Keep in mind that I record into Digi 001 from the Akai which is like my mixer.I usually make stereo mixes from my mpc2000 because i'm just used to doing it that way,however I usually mix the overall volume of the mix along with the vocals in pro-tools.The expander module I was refering to was the cp-251 ,I belive that what it's called i'm not sure though.I wanted to know what it will offer my voyager as far as new capabilities and sounds.Is it worth having?You were asking me about modular synthesis,I don't know anything that.Thats what it says it does.I'm just trying to get an averageeverydaypersonsperspective on some of this stuff instead of a lot of technical talk.I kinda understand what Another Fine Day was saying in his story about his first analog synth because the other day I was looking for a sound I heard in a Dr.dre cd to see if I could find it so searched the presets on the Voyager and I found a preset-sound that sounded a little like it so I started tweaking different knobs and I tweaked around for a while eventually after like 5 minutes I had it!I'm not saying I mastered anything by any means but it gave me a little inspiration about this analog synth stuff.I don't fully understand concept the voice architecture yet I did understand when you said that deeps bases tend to have a resonance peak of 250-300hz and such but a I look at my voyager I don't know where to find or calculate the 250-300hz.You did say something about the filter so tonight I will play with some of this stuff and see what happens .I would now love to create a couple of midi tracks with my voyager say for bass and weird sounds and use a couple of tracks of my Triton for some drums and keys.How can I accomplish this as far as connecting both boards to my mpc.Midi thru?Do I have to sync them or trigger something inside the menus?Thats a big one for me.As far as the links I haven't had time to thoroughly read thru.I glanced at them though and I will read some of them tonight.I got my hands free for a couple of hours.As far as getting patches from somewhere I would have to audition them and decide which ones are worthy out of one of my 128 user banks.How do I load and save a sound like this into my voyager?And erase it if I want to replace it.So to answer your question I want to edit and use/import sounds.Hopefully I cleared a few things up.Thanks.

Smokey5100
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Post by Smokey5100 » Sun Aug 10, 2003 8:39 pm

Thanks for the advice,A.F.D

another fine day
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Post by another fine day » Tue Aug 12, 2003 8:50 am

No trouble, Smokey.

On more specific questions...in this one, lets get you synced up first- I'm not
immediately familiar with your gear, but in general.

1. You'll have to decide which going to be your sync master, probably either your Triton or MPC;whichever is your most used sequencer (MPC?). If you have or (use the Triton as)a digital recorder, it will probably want to be the master, since there are 2 kinds of clock involved with digital recording, the
sample rate clock(44.1, 16 bit, if your still running at CD rates), and the MIDI clock that tells all the machines where in the song they should be. There's also MMC(midi machine code) which defines which is the master device and which are slaves (ie you press play on one of them and the rest sync to that).

For the moment I would ignore the digi clock issues and just get familiar with MIDI sync. Try this...

2. Take a lead from the midi OUT of your MPC and put the other end in the
midi IN of the Triton. Somwhere in both machines will be midi pages with parameters that let you decide who's doing what, and I recommend you find the midi sections in your manuals and get familiar with those pages. You want (initially) to sert the MPC as the master and the Triton as slave.

This will probably entail setting a parameter on the Triton to 'midi sync' where it will listen out for a set of commands form the MPC. You have 2 options of code to use, either Midi Clock or MTC(which is the same thing embedded in old-fashioned SMPTE code, basically)- for your purposes it doesn't matter too much which, as long as you set the MMC pages on each machine correctly. The Triton should MMC slave, the MPC MMC master. The advantage of using midi clock is you don't have to set the tempo on the slave;with MTC the code is 'free-running' so you do have to set the tempo on the slave. Both machines should be set to the same kind of code. Running midi clock to a triton listening for MTC(or vice-versa) and nothing happens...

3. Hopefully you should now be set for synced playback. You may have to press play on the Triton to put it into sync mode, then just press play on the MPC and the 2 should now play back in sync.

To recap the theory:-

Midi clock- a relatively old form of sync, sends tempo info as well as song position pointers.

MTC- a SMPTE- type code that carries sync info but no tempo info. It just keeps everbody in the same place time-position wise.

MMC- the bit that defines who tells what when to play, FF, RW, whatever.

To get the Voyager in the picture, we have to talk about midi channels. If you're using the MPC as a sequencer then you'd assign a 'track'on the MPC to a certain midi channel(1-16), hook the Voyager midi OUT up to the MPC midi IN (to tell the MPC which notes you played) and give the Voyager its midi (playback) data from any available output on your system that carries info from the MPC. If you're going MPC Out>Triton In(for sync) hook the THRU from the Triton to the Voyager Midi IN. Set the Voyager's midi channel(master edit button gets you to the pages for this)to the same midi channel assigned to the track on the MPC you want the Voyager driven by. Most folk use the track number as the default midi channel(for that track) to avoid confusion.

In the end it would help you more if someone with a Triton or MPC got in the game as well, because I'm just guessing here...and reading this back i could have got it a bit clearer ! However....I gotta got to work so that'll have to be it for now, hope this helps

afd

Smokey5100
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Post by Smokey5100 » Tue Aug 12, 2003 10:40 am

Another Fine Day.Thanks for the tips.I use my mpc2000 as the master sequencer.I'm gonna try what you told me today.I'll be back,Have a good one!

steveo
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Don't worry dude,

Post by steveo » Sun Aug 17, 2003 12:39 pm

...I'll help you out a bit, as much as i can.

First, it may help to NOT use all of the features on you Voyager immediatley. When I started learning synthesis, I thought 'Hey, instead of getting an expensive hardware mono synth, I'll spend way less and get some software package with features not available on any hardware synth' Sounds great more bang for the buck, you know what I'm saying. But I was overwhelmed by all the options, and couldn't craft a sound to save my life.

Then I got a Roland SH-101 real cheap. It changed everything. A single osc, single filter single envelope synth. But there weren't so many options, and with all the controls in front of me, it was easy to dive in a start creating sounds. So I would recommend that you 'strip' down your Voyager, for now, to focus on the basics. Start with one OSC and play with the octave range - how does that change the sound? Then use the low pass filter - how does that change the sound? Mess around with the envelope controls, etc. But do so with a simplified set up first. You'll begin to see and hear what all the basic components do, in the most basic and simplified implementation.

Even if you create a sound you like at first, my recommendation is to NOT save it as a preset. Why? Because then you will be forcing your self to reproduce the process of creating a sound, instead of depending on random luck. It will reinforce your learning mechanism. Eventaully you won't NEED to make presests, but will do so to expediate you composing, rather than sound designing.

After you've spent some time with a basic stripped down Voyager setup, begin to slowly add more features or options to your synthesis path. Add a second osc. Work with LFO's. Add a second filter. Keep on slowly building the complexity of your patches, and reinforce your learning mechanism.

Finally, at some point your are going to incorporate all of the features the Voyager has to offer. Becuase you will have mastered the basics and learned by slowly making your patches more complex, you will feel confident with your programming skills. You may at some point feel as if you have reached the limits of your Voyager. At this point you might be ready to delve into modular synthesis, but until that happens I WOULDN"T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. There are so many possibilites working with one osc on the Voyager, that you will find doors of sonic possibilities opening when you begin to add more osc, and more features.

On a final note, perhaps you should also learn to usse the voyager without depending to much on midi. Midi is cool, especially to sync certain parameters to sequencer tempo, but like the previous suggestions strip everything down to its bare essence. If you want LFO modulations to sync with a rhythm do it by ear. Learn to play in time, before you let a machine do it for you. I don't know how you program beats on your MPC, but I do not step record anything. I real time program with a minimum of overdubs, and apply quantization to tighten things up if I'm sloppy. But I don't want to be sloppy, so I work on getting it right or as close to the first time, you know what I mean? Like wise for the Voyager. That way you'll develope your own style, instead of AKAI's style or Roland's or Korg's.

Okay I guess I said that was the final note but this one is. Be patient with the synth. The more time you give it the more it wil give you. I can understand that you may not have much time to give, but if that's the case, give it whatever you can, and if you feel tired overwhelmed or frustrated, give it a rest, go to the triton or the fantom, or the MPC. Synthesis is a practice in progress. Like anything, you will get burned out if you take on to much at once and don't allow your mind and your soul to absorb what you've learned.

About forums: I found that forums are not the best place to ask for help or advice. Generally, forums are places where people report problems, or successes, ask technically oriented questions (is this normal for my synth to do blah blah blah). Its a way of doing things where there are no real consequences. So forget about the negative comments, although there is always a positive aspect to anything. Someone referred to you as a gutter person. That was incredibly rude, but his point: do it on your own before you depend on other people for help. Then you explained your circumstance, that you ARE doing as much as you can! That person was ignorant and when exposing his ignorance, he also exposed his lack of empathy and compassion. So rather than disrespect you, he disrespected himself. But, rudeness, notwithstanding, his point is valid. When I ask for help or advice, I always state what I've done prior to asking for help, i.e. I am asking someone for their help only after i've exhausted all other options (no one is going to tell me to RTFM, or surf the web, or buy a book, etc). Then again, you will alwyas find people like AFD and myslef who like to help out as much as we can.

Peace

Smokey5100
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Post by Smokey5100 » Sun Aug 17, 2003 10:33 pm

Thanks Steveo.That's some pretty good advice.You gave me a good idea on how to approach my mini.I appreciate that.

doubleyouel
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oh my god this topic is a mess

Post by doubleyouel » Fri Aug 29, 2003 7:17 pm

hey man that's cool that you're into Hiphop and moog gear, me too. i use a G4 with pro tools to sequence but i have a friend that uses an mpc 2000 and he's happy with it. so do you dig on the mpc? how are things working out with your voyager? i am hoping to purchase a voyager in november. as for your questions, whew! you sure do have a lot of questions. i agree with some of the posters in that you have to do some homework yourself. a lot of the answers to your questions are complex and not so easy to summarize. damn, you have a triton studio and a fantom AND a 001?! i'm a little jealous.

Smokey5100
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Post by Smokey5100 » Fri Aug 29, 2003 7:33 pm

Hey Double.Who's hot in New York right now in the underground?I want to start communicating with producers on the East Coast like yourself as well.It helps me get a good prospective on whats crackin out there and vice versa.What kind of boards do you use.Do you primaraly sample?Me I don't use samples in my production,at least not yet.Have you ever used a voyager or a minimoog before?Hit me back.Peace,Smokey

doubleyouel
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NYC Hiphop

Post by doubleyouel » Sat Aug 30, 2003 2:08 pm

hello again,

i actually do all sample-based music right now and i use an SP-1200 for drums strictly. i don't own any keyboards now, the voyager will be my first. as for the scene over here, you probably know that's it's dominated by NYC. to tell you the truth though, ever since i started making my own music back in 1997 my attention to the Hiphop scene has tapered off. nevertheless, i have been checking for Edan, MF Doom, Def Jux, DJ Shadow, Blackalicious and all other kinds of artists and musicians. good luck with your musical adventures!

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