Old School's Enhanced Mod Bus

Tips and techniques for Minimoog Analog Synthesizers
cl516
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Old School's Enhanced Mod Bus

Post by cl516 » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:55 pm

The Old School's Enhanced Mod Bus is stated to have more mod options that appear on the front panel.

Are these all the same modulations that appear in the previous Voyager's menus?

Or did the Old School gain something brand new?

Stuckinabox
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Post by Stuckinabox » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:44 pm

It looks like you can now select OSC 1 and 2 as mod sources, and the mod wheel, MOD1 and volume envelope were added to the shaping knob.

crs.one
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Post by crs.one » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:52 am

if i'm not mistaken, the std voyager can do the same modulation arrangements via the programmable setting on the buses, right? so the std can do the same the os does, it just doesn't have it on the front panel.
crs.one

cl516
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Post by cl516 » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:56 pm

yeah crs.one that's pretty much what i'm thinking too.
i'm just curious if there's any small detail we're overlooking.

Stuckinabox
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Post by Stuckinabox » Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:54 am

crs.one wrote:if i'm not mistaken, the std voyager can do the same modulation arrangements via the programmable setting on the buses, right? so the std can do the same the os does, it just doesn't have it on the front panel.
Yeah, now that i've checked, you can do those things through the software. Hmm.

Amos
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Post by Amos » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:43 am

there is one small thing,

The Shaping knob is not really Shaping anymore. It is Modulation Sources.

So, with this knob you select whether a bus is tied to the mod wheel, or velocity, or aftertouch... and in all cases the modulation source completely controls the level of modulation from zero to maximum (100% of the modulation depth set by the Amount knob). This means for an easy example that you can tie a vibrato LFO to Aftertouch, so that there is no vibrato at all until you engage it with aftertouch. This is difficult if not impossible on the standard Voyager as a Shaping selection only multiplies the amount of modulation, a Shaper cannot set the amount of modulation to zero.

I haven't really spent the time to confirm all new unique possibilities of the new mod bus configuration but this is certainly one of them. It's pretty fun live.

SteveD
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Post by SteveD » Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:58 am

Here's the lowdown on the Old School Mod Busses:

On the regular Voyager, one mod bus is controlled by the Mod Wheel (The Mod Wheel Mod Bus) and the other is controlled by the MOD1 input, which is normalled to +5V, or ON (The Pedal/ON Mod Bus). Each Mod Bus has a Source, Destination and Shaping selector switch.

On the Old School, We changed these to Mod Bus 1 and Mod Bus 2, and replaced the SHAPING selector with a 6-position selector called CONTROLLER. This means that the Mod Busses have lost their Shaping feature, but gained open-ended control. Each Mod Bus can be controlled from the Mod Wheel, MOD1 Input (normalled to +5), Velocity, KB Pressure, Filter EGR or Volume EGR. It means that both Mod busses can be controlled by the mod wheel at a turn of a switch. In the regular Voyager you do this with a preset's pot mapping.

Another change is the replacement of the LFO Sync Selector with a LFO Waveform selector (You still have the LFO Sync input if you want to Sync the LFO to KB Gate). On the Mod Bus Sources, the first choice is LFO and the waveform is determined by the LFO Waveform selector. Other mod sources are the Oscillators, Noise and the MOD2 input (normalled to +5). That's also different from the regular Voyager but nice for some modulations that you would need to use a preset's PGM Mod Sources.

Hope that explains it a little.

SD

cl516
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Post by cl516 » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:45 pm

Ok to hijack my own thread:

For people who know:

If 2 knobs (like Spacing and Cutoff) are being tweaked simultaneously,
does the Old School make for an even smoother sound because there's no DSP?
(2 front panel knobs, NOT pedals or CV)

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latigid on
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Post by latigid on » Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:28 am

I believe the original Voyager displays 7-bit, but actually processes tweaks as 14-bit. You can get the full resolution when using the Software. 14-bit is still quite "smooth". Ask me to turn a knob to 16000-odd different positions and I'm sure I'll have trouble.

Question:

Why did Moog not release a RAC Voyager? Sure, it would be more expensive, but I thought the LP was supposed to be the budget Moog synth.

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till
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Post by till » Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:44 am

cl516 wrote:...
because there's no DSP?
...
There was and no Moog Music synth ever with DSP.
There is a modern version of the Z80 processor inside. This is nothing like a DSP at all. A DSP (Digital Signal Processor) is mainly used to generate or manipulate audio data. The sound of the Voyager is generated 100% analog. The digital part just controls and memorizes the settings of the knobs and menue functions.
All the parameters of the sound are then generated analog by using real VC controlled parameters. So there is are (for example) two fully VC controllable envelope generators in the Voyager. No other Moog (except modular synths) ever got so many VCed parameters.
keep on turning these Moog knobs

Sequence:
Prodigy * minimoog '79 * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog 2017+ MUSE * One 16

cl516
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Post by cl516 » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:00 pm

My mistake regarding using the term DSP.

What I meant:

On current Voyagers, if I use the front panel only,
as I manually tweak the SPACING knob and then sweep CUTOFF,
i don't get a completely smooth filter sweep sound. Little artifacts.

If I use CV pedals instead to do the same, I DO get smooth sweep sound.

So I guess my question is:

Since the OLD SCHOOL has no 'modern z80 processor' in it at all,
does that mean even those front panel knob tweaks will be perfectly smooth?


:?: :?:

godzilla
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Post by godzilla » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:39 am

how does the old school (or std voyager for that matter) output the mod busses through the VX 351?
does it just send the mod source straight out on it's own, or is the output effected by the "controller" (shaping) and amount knobs?
i'm asking to see if it's possible to send out VCO 2 and 3 straight out of the vx into the mf102 and back through the mixer without effecting anything else? making the mixer controls for vco 2,3 and ext in, into ring mod controls all on the synth itself.

if this is not possible then maybe the touch pad outputs should be changed to vco outs. what will they be used for on the old school btw?

great synth guys, as much as i love and adore my little phatty this is really the synth i've been waiting for you guys to make for years now. i find it hilarious that people are actually complaining about it for not having midi or presets, how long has the voyager performer been out now? i would have thought they'd have noticed the midi preset version by now.

eric coleridge
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Post by eric coleridge » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:10 pm

cl516 wrote:
Since the OLD SCHOOL has no 'modern z80 processor' in it at all,
does that mean even those front panel knob tweaks will be perfectly smooth?

:?: :?:
This is what I'm wondering also. Is the OS completely analog? Or did they just remove part of the digital control/memory.

I can't wait to try it out.

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bunnyman
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Post by bunnyman » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:11 pm

RE: Z80 processor, etc... As Till said, everything on the Voyager is Analog -even the envelope generators and LFO. I'm not hearing any "digital artifacts" on my Sig Series at all. Even if I change two knobs at once. Are you also complaining about how digital a Prophet Five sounds? Besides as Moog's own hype machine puts it:

Moog Music presents the Minimoog Voyager Signature Edition, an all analog performance synthesizer incorporating virtually all of the functions of the original minimoog synthesizer, produced from 1971 to 1984, and a number of new features that bring the minimoog into the 21st Century and beyond. :wink:

-andrew bunny

cl516
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Post by cl516 » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:03 pm

Bunnyman:

I could be wrong but to me,

manually tweaking SPACING and CUTOFF with front panel knobs

sound different than if I got some EP-2's involved for tweaking

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