Getting Little Phatty filter overdrive sound with Voyager

[Nick2012]

I'm assuming that the way to get true Little Phatty emulation with a Voyager is to somehow add filter overdrive to the Voyager architecture. I'm thinking about using the rear panel jack to insert my Blue Robbie preamp between the mixer and filters. While increasing the preamp gain I'd use my ears to determine when/if the filters are being over-driven. Is this a viable approach? Has anyone done something similar? Or... is there a better way to make my Voyager sound like a LP? I've been listening to some great songs posted on the LP forum, and I've heard a couple of awesome LP patches.

[c7sus]

I've used a KLON Centaur boost/OD pedal on the insert but never tried a full-on instrument preamp. I'd be careful with that approach.

FWIW the Voyager and the KLON play very well together, and I've been looking into the ZVEX Wooly Mammoth to take it to the next level of subharmonic goodness.

[GregAE]

I'm assuming that the way to get true Little Phatty emulation with a Voyager is to somehow add filter overdrive to the Voyager architecture. I'm thinking about using the rear panel jack to insert my Blue Robbie preamp between the mixer and filters. While increasing the preamp gain I'd use my ears to determine when/if the filters are being over-driven. Is this a viable approach? Has anyone done something similar? Or... is there a better way to make my Voyager sound like a LP? I've been listening to some great songs posted on the LP forum, and I've heard a couple of awesome LP patches.

I wrote about this a while back. Since new forum members may not be aware of it, it's probably worth mentioning again. Find it here:

http://www.moogmusic.com/members/?secti ... 0id%20DESC

[Nick2012]

Thanks Greg!! Good info. I had found some old threads talking about the Kicking It Up a Notch article, but the links were dead.

[GregAE]

Thanks Greg!! Good info. I had found some old threads talking about the Kicking It Up a Notch article, but the links were dead.

You're welcome! Note that the article doesn't specifically address how to make the Voyager sound like an LP, but does cover the basic ways to get an overdriven sound out of the Voyager.

FYI: Back when the LP was being developed, Moog's designers considered using asymmetrical clipping designs for the Overload circuit. Some musicians credit asymmetrical clipping circuits with a richer sound that has more body and character than symmetrical clipping. I don't know what the actual Overload circuitry design looks like (Amos or SteveD should be able to answer this one), but you might try a few OD pedals that feature asymmetrical clipping circuitry and see what you think. Boss's SD-1 Super Overdrive is one such OD, Fulltone's Full-Drive pedal is another (although the Boss pedal may be easier to come by in your local music store).

But sure to post some audio clips for us if you come up with something cool!

[Nick2012]

Will do. Thanks again for the info.

[Amos]

I think the closest to the LP Overload sound might be obtained by using a ProCo Rat pedal in the mixer out/filter in insert loop. At any rate, it won't sound bad...

[GregAE]

A couple more observations about stompboxes; On anther post I mentioned that distortion pedals provided a more-satisfying result than did overdrive pedals (both in the Mix loop and post-Voyager), and I still think this is true. Believe it or not, some of the best distortion sound I got out of my Voyager was using a cheap Dan Electro FAB Metal pedal ($15 at GC!).

Although I don't own a Little Phatty, I have spent a good bit of time playing with them. The Overload circuit in the LP has always struck me as a combination of OD and distortion in that as you begin to rotate the Overload dial you get some nice overdriven sounds, but if you continue to push it it gets into a harder clipping mode that resembles distortion. There are stompboxes available that can do both OD & Distortion (Boss' OS-2 pedal comes to mind), and these are also worth checking out to get a similar effect.

Compared to guitarists, synthesists have a nearly infinite variety of sounds to work with, and that means that any pedal you try will probably work well on at least a few synth patches. If you find a really great combination of Voyager patch and pedal, please let me know. I would add that the subtleties amongst pedals that are prized by guitarists seem to be lost when connected to synths, so don't waste your time and money searching for that elusive vintage Ibanez Tube Screamer if you're only going to try it with the Voyager.

Also, don't overlook the possibilities of the POD or other amp/cab simulators (or REAL amps!) in getting some cool tones out the Voyager. One of my favorites sounds is the Pat Metheny synth guitar sound made possible using the Voyager patch 'Offramp' (from the Thomas Wolf sound bank) and processing that sound through a Fender Twin amp simulator. You can read more about this particular sound and hear an audio clip here:

https://www.moogmusic.com/members/?sect ... ile_id=322

But getting back to your original question about using the Blue Robbie preamp to overdrive the filter: I think this is a viable option, but I doubt that you'll get the same sounds as an LP just by using this technique. From one thing, the preamp would REALLY have to overdrive the filter, and the preamp itself will probably go into distortion long before the signal gets large enough. Of course, under these conditions it means that the preamp is now acting as a distortion circuit - which in principle is no different from what an OD or distortion pedal would do, and that gets you back to considering pedals once again.

That said, on occasion I use a Presonus Blue Tube stereo preamp to add some color and tube warmth to the Voyager. But I found that I can cascade the channels (ch 1 --> ch2) and push the DRIVE controls of both channels hard enough to generate some interesting tube distortion that sounds different from any of my stompboxes. I've also found that this technique works best with single oscillator/swept resonance patches (as does most OD/Distortion signal processing)

As with all-things Voyager, try anything and everything. Just remember that whatever you try, start with the levels set low and bring them up slowly, playing as you go. Good luck, and have fun!

[monokit]

My tip...that doesn´t sound like the LP filter overload...but still very warm and musical...chain a Blackstar HT-Drive to the output of the Voyager. Works fantastic with bass sounds.

[SteveD]

Hi All -

There are two components to the special sauce known as the LP "overload" (note - named after the overload light on the original minimoog mixer).

The first is positive feedback in the mixer before the filter. This is related to but a little different than the old output to audio input trick to fatten up a minimoog sound (thus the name, overload). The difference is in the fact that the signal fed back into the the mixer is the mixer output itself, not the instrument's audio out. Before the signal goes back into the mixer, it is passed through a voltage controlled clipper, akin to the VCA for the external audio in on the voyager. This circuit goes from no clipping, to soft clipping to hard clipping as the gain is increased. The idea here was to add extra harmonics to the mixer output BEFORE the filter. An aside - have you ever used the external audio input of the Voyager as a distortion? It can be quite nice.

The second is a post-filter asymetrical clipping circuit. This is so if you crank up the filter resonance, the post-filter clipping adds a nice nastiness to the sine component of the filter's resonance.

The two elements are controlled in tandem as you turn up the Overload control. There are actually more than these two sources that contribute to the sound, because you have distortion in the mixer output stage, the filter input stage and the output VCA stages as well - in the LP anything in the signal path post-oscillator waveshaping gets hit by the Overload...

So you can't get exactly the LP's overload sound w/ the voyager, but there are a few strategies to try one at a time or in combination.

1) add a device that has soft clipping in the mixer out/filter in insert jack.

2) use the output to input mixer feedback trick (just DON'T use the headphone output because a mono cable shorts one of the headphone outputs to ground and is hard on the headphone amp)

3) add a distortion device AFTER the Voyager output for post-filter clipping.

Clipping sounds on an analog synth is a tricky affair, because not all sounds benefit from clipping (like a square wave - clipping a square wave doesn't do much) and too much clipping often results in square waves... Best results are w/ soft clipping on triangle or sawtooth waves, and for post-filter clipping try adding some resonance to the filter to make the clipping more evident.

There are many ways to mangle a waveform - all are fair game! These are just a couple of thoughts for y'all. YMMV. Enjoy.

SD

[LWG]

The two elements are controlled in tandem as you turn up the Overload control. There are actually more than these two sources that contribute to the sound, because you have distortion in the mixer output stage, the filter input stage and the output VCA stages as well - in the LP anything in the signal path post-oscillator waveshaping gets hit by the Overload...

Hello


Steve, thanks for the background info on the Little Phatty's overload function.
What occurred to me is that it would be interesting to have independent control of the main
two stages to the overload function. That is, splitting the ckt so that there are three
toggled states within the LP's menu for this function:


State 1 (default): Pre-filter overload only. For those who want crunch, but the type where content
can be shaped by the filter. More controlled overdrive.


State 2: Post-filter overload only. Since this is post-filter, the harmonic products aren't directly
shaped by the filter. Its a more uncontrolled type of overdrive.


State 3: Pre and post-filter overload. Both sections used in tandem, as now.


Splitting the overload function in this way would add more tonal flexibility without having to
change (other than a break) the actual overload ckt. The level of overload would still be
continuously variable for each of the states. You're just making the two stages independently
switchable in the software. Is there enough room in the LP's software to do this and allow
the selected state to be saved with the patch?
I'm sure it could be done purely as a hardware mod, but in that case it would be global and wouldn't
be stored in memory on a per-patch basis.



Regards,



-L

[monokit]

I inserted a Blackstar HT-Drive into my modified (Slew rate limit-mod by Rudi) Voyager mix-out/filter in jack.

Have a listen:

http://geschnittenbrot.podspot.de/files ... -Demo1.mp3

Several examples 1) without 2) with Blackstar HT-Drive Valve distortion.

It doesn´t work well with certain sounds...but great with bass sounds and fx sounds, as you can hear. It also depends on the settings on the pedal. It´s nothing like the LP-Overload but adds an interesting character to the sound.
Due to the valve, the sound of the distortion pedal is very warm. If you take a transistor distortion like one from Boss, the result should be more gritty, electronical.

[Jasperh]

Just get a cheapy Boss Bass Overdrive. Sends the Moog into a great, warm distortion.

It's great for percussion sounds. Whack the noise through an overdrive and it sounds amazing! Filthy drums.

Any differences between Boss and boutique pedals do you think? I gather the Boss is analogue, so it sounds pretty good. I just whack everything up to full and blast it through the filter.

Just sold my Phatty after I bought that pedal. No regrets. Well, maybe a few. But my Voyager will make me forget about them!!!

[Mooch Foyager]

When using the mixer in and applying the feedback trick to overload the filter, when pushing it hard on some/most patches the sound does not follow pitch anymore. Is this correct?

[bichuelo]

When using the mixer in and applying the feedback trick to overload the filter, when pushing it hard on some/most patches the sound does not follow pitch anymore. Is this correct?

If you feed the signal to the Ext In this is true, but if you do it on the insert point the pitch seems to be much more stable.