Unhappy With Sound

[johnypneumo]

Hello,
i think this is my 2nd post only
anyway,. i realise i might face the wrath of everyones anger -
but here go`s.

Since 1981 i have owned quite a few synths,some of the analog synths ive owned include:

Edp Wasp,
moog taurus,
moog prodigy,
moog rogue,
jen sx1000,
roland sh101,
roland cr78,
korg poly 800,
korg mono/poly, and afew others i cant even remember who made them.,

Now ive had my Voyager a few months now,its all updated in its software dept,
lots of new patches from here and i seriosly treat my moog very well,
dust cover and more

But to me,it just does not sound analog.

when i play it,it just sounds like a digital synth to me,.
it actualy sounds like acoustic modelling. - the sounds have no life like my old synths did,.
i realy ,realy want it to sound cool - and yet there are probably only 2 patches in the whole thing that i think are any good.,
i know its not about "patches" but to my trained ears it just does not sound analog ( bar maybe 2 sounds )

ive been offered a vx351 & cp251 in a rack.,
however - the guy said on the phone " you just unscrew this plate,attach this,attach that etc "
what !!
to use the modular gear i have to basically open up my synth ?
ive been offered these 2 bits of gear at a good cheap price - and im contemplating buying them in desperation that they might make my moog sound like a moog - but i dont even know if these 2 modules will help.

and on a final note,. ( and this realy bugs )
in the manual i got with the moog ,. on every page, every reference to "moog" has been blacked out,. ! why ?
is this not a moog ?
if it is then why all reference to moog been blacked out ?
im sorry everyone,i want to love my synth but it aint giving.

*edit -when searching thru the FAQ here,the question is asked "is the voyager realy analog"

the response is ( something like ):

" the entire signal path for the voyager is analog,so yes the voyager is analog"

well,.i ask,. is the signal generator analog ? because,. if the waveform is digitaly produced and the envelope,filter and outputs are analog -
then thats not an analog synth.

Darren.

[Lengai]

Darren,

Sorry to hear you're having woes with your Voyager. As far as the analog part, yes, it is an analog synth. So you can rest easy there. The software and controls are digital, but the sound is all analog.

I would recommend getting the 251 and 351 from your friend if it's a great deal. There's a small board you put into the Voyager for the 351 to work. It's extremely easy to do. You just put a block under the synth panel to hold it and take off the back screws to put the board in. It takes about 5-10 minutes.

Vintage synths were made with components available at that time, and Dr. Moog designed the Voyager with components available now so that probably accounts for some of the sound difference you're referring to. The Voyager's oscillators are very stable.

If you check Moogspace, GregAE has an article on using a BBE processor to open up the filter which you may like.

As far as the manual, I don't have it in front of me. I know there is an issue with Moog and the UK so maybe that has something to do with Moog's name not being in the manual?

If you still just don't like the Voyager's sound then you may want to sell it and buy a synth you really like. I think Dr. Moog would say the same thing. It's about crreating and if the Voyager is not letting you do that then it's not for you.

[johnypneumo]

Thankyou Lengai for a great response.,
ive been offered the 2 units racked up for £100 ,which would be about $200 ,.
can i still use the voyager as normal with the board connected ?
and do they make much of a differnce ?
i thought realy hard after making my post as to just what it is thats left me feeling this way about the synth,.and i think that most of the sounds im listening too sound like single oscillator jobs, - they just dont sound like 3 osc rocking or swirling away ,even on simple lead lines,
has anyone got a great patch they can send me that might change my mind ?

[Lengai]

The Voyager will work fine with the board installed and not using the 351. That's a great price for a 251 and 351 seeing that the 251 alone is about $350.

The 351 breaks out the Voyager to control other gear like the 251 or the Foogers. I use the outs from the touchscreen from the 351 a lot.

The 251 is very useful too. The manual and articles on Moogspace are great resources. I believe there are several patches on Moogspace that you can look into.

[GregAE]

i realise i might face the wrath of everyones anger -
but here go`s.

Now ive had my Voyager a few months now,its all updated in its software dept,
lots of new patches from here and i seriosly treat my moog very well,
dust cover and more

But to me,it just does not sound analog.

No wrath - we're all friends here, Darren. Let me assure you that the Voyager is an analog synth. The entire signal path (VCO->VCF->VCA) is analog, the oscillators are analog (not digital), and the filter is the classic Moog ladder filter design. This is why it has the Moog sound. It's the real deal - not sampled, not modeled, not emulated.

In another thread on these boards, I mentioned that my friend Brian and I are working on a sonic comparison test between a vintage Minimoog, a Voyager and a CreamWare Minimax (virtual analog in a hardware form). Without going into a lot of detail here, I can tell you that three units are very close in sound (comparing matching patches). If you had a Minimoog for comparison, I'm sure you'd come to the same conclusion about the Voyager.

That said, it's possible that there's something wrong with your Voyager. Could you somehow compare it to another Voyager or Little Phatty to see if this is the case?

ive been offered a vx351 & cp251 in a rack.,
however - the guy said on the phone " you just unscrew this plate,attach this,attach that etc "
what !!
to use the modular gear i have to basically open up my synth ?
ive been offered these 2 bits of gear at a good cheap price - and im contemplating buying them in desperation that they might make my moog sound like a moog - but i dont even know if these 2 modules will help.

A VX351 & CP251 will turn the Voyager into a semi-modular synth, where you can create new CV routings and expand the sound palate with additional modulation sources (LFO's, S&H, Noise, etc.). However, these modules will not change the nature of the sound; the Voyager will still sound the same.

The reason you have to open up the Voyager is that you have to install a small output adapter board. The board is a CV buffering device that insures the VX351 CV Expander works properly. Once you install the board, you close up the Voyager and you're done. Connect the VX351 to the Voyager using the supplied cable and enjoy the new possibilities provided by the expanded CVs.

and on a final note,. ( and this realy bugs )
in the manual i got with the moog ,. on every page, every reference to "moog" has been blacked out,. ! why ?
is this not a moog ?
if it is then why all reference to moog been blacked out ?
im sorry everyone,i want to love my synth but it aint giving.

I think the situation is different now, but for a time, Moog Music couldn't do business in the UK because someone else owned the rights to the Moog name. This is the reason why 'Moog' is blacked out everywhere in the literature. Also, check the name plate on your Voyager: I seem to recall that units built for the UK had a special plate that said "Voyager by Bob Moog" on them (or something like that).

Lengai's suggestion of using a BBE Sonic Stomp in the Voyager's Mix/Out loop is something you should try. The 'Stomp is an aural exciter that can add that extra bit of airyness to the top end, possibly making the Voyager just a bit closer to the sound you're looking for. (Note: You could use any aural exciter here - Aphex, BBE, whatever. It's just that the BBE is in a convenient stompbox format, while others are in rack-mount).

Lastly, try taking a patch that you really like and making some subtle adjustments. If it's a three oscillator patch, try detuning the oscillators a little bit for some beating, or open up the filter a bit more. Experimentation is the key - those knobs are there for a reason. Also, if your Voyager doesn't have the expanded memory board, don't forget that there are seven banks of factory sounds (706 total) available for you to load up and audition, and a few hundred more on MoogSpace.

Let us know how it goes.

--G

[zgogor]

maybe a detail here but ...
it depends on what kind of gears you hear you Voyager too !!
Last time I was making few new sounds, I put an headphones and it was so much better than my amplifier !
I understood that my amplifier was very bad to restitute the real sound of the moog and of my own sounds .
So, maybe this can help ...

z g o

[johnypneumo]

Hya zgogor,
im using a sony digital amp and behringer digital mixer,the speakers are spirit absolute zero`s,
so it sounds pretty hot realy but i agree with you that many speakers just make the sound,. sound wrong

GregAE,.
wow ,thankyou - its obvious to me that you fellas seriously know your stuff,
i cant access the other hundreds of sounds as i havent the expansion,but ill see if theres a way to load the other patches into midi-ox and send them over to my moog that way.,

in reference to the sound.,as mentioned there are a couple of sounds,that realy do sound ace., and the synth def has a moog character in its sound.

thanks 100% for putting my mind at ease with the analog engine etc
i was hearing more and more digital residue as i got more and more paranoid lol
i`ll plough thru some more sounds and try creating some totaly frm scratch - oh and yes !! mine does have the "voyager by bob moog" plate on the front ( gutted,id rather it just said MOOG )
cheers fellas ,
speak soon

Darren.

[johnypneumo]

well ive paid for and registered the mood editor librarian software so i can load up the extra sounds ( im assuming i need this if i havent got the expansion - right ? )
hhhmmmm

[johnypneumo]

o m g

ive just stumbled upon how to load the moog banks ,.
there are some awesome patches !
some of the sounds are realy 70`s ,some are so strong - and some are so lite,just buying the software has realy opened up my machine,now i want another 4 or 5 so i can go poly ,. lol
im a lot happier tonite guys honest,
thanks a lot

[synthetic]

Another thing to try, if you haven't already, is to only listen to the right output to disable filter spacing. Plug a cable into the left out that doesn't go anywhere, then go from the right out to your mixer. Filter spacing in dual-lowpass mode adds phasing, in a nice way, but you might not like the sound of it. (How I wish there were a way to do this in software...) I just played with on in the store and this made a huge difference in the sound.

Yeah the MOOG blacked out is because of that wanker in Cornwall who still owned the Moog name in the UK, even though he only ever built five keyboards or something. Maybe there's a way to purchase the USA logo plate now that Moog owns the name again in the UK...

[Tibbon]

Yea, the Voyager is very analogue. Many people (unfortunately) take analogue to mean distorted, imprecise, noisy and instable. Think of how people think of what a record sounds like.

I have had more than one person say to me, "Oh yea, i love the way records sound... all the cracks and pops really adds character." I have over 700 records of all genres, and let me tell you if there's any crackling and poping in general i'm not too happy and I'm cleaning the record and needle off quickly! Records shouldn't sound that way. A virgin record on a good deck sounds simply amazing. No cracks, pops, snaps, noise, etc...

But back to the Voyager. It's built well, really well. It's not digital, and I've had some digital synths that I've played with monophonic sounds on... and it's not that at all. Maybe, in the way that my friends need to update what they think a record sounds like, it would be good to use the Voyager as good definition as to what analogue is supposed to sound like.

Obviously you're pretty experienced with all of this, and have had some good synths, but the Voyager is going to be a little cleaner than some of those that you've owned. It's going to be a little more stable. It doesn't need to be recapped or anything (at the moment). It's in pretty much top shape. But it is anything but digital.

The reason you need to open up the Voyager (not a big deal, really... you won't break it) is to install the daughter board for the VX. It's basically (if I remember right) just an array of resistors basically to help prevent interference of the signals coming in. You could theoretically go without it, but it's going to not give stable results and probably won't work as well.

I'd hop on the VX/CP combo in a second.

[zgogor]

You really want a good sound in A Berhinger mixer ???

Plug you moog in an Analog gear ... you will hear the difference .

I use a NEVE channel Strip, no compromise...

z g o

[Emil]

As a novice, but avid listener, maybe your reaching just a bit.
Many posts remark to the effect that if your looking to use the
voyager to get a sound that you liked on a previous synth, maybe
your perceptions of the instrument are more about what you expected
rather then what you have. I'm an avid reader too.

I hope this isn't so camp as to sound repetitive or like
rantings of a devoted moogist. In stark contrast
to my claims, I haven't read the other posts.
Having the v up and running this morning and
using pot mapping, I had to stop by and find a way to
jump to an empty preset to save what I have.

I'm not sure, and correct me on this, but it seems
that the parameter assignments change in real time.
You don't have to go outside of the menu before hearing
the effect. If this claim proved false, I'd still feel very
fortunate to be in the same room as the moog voyager.

Hope you find more enjoyment in your use of the
mighty v.

[johnypneumo]

You really want a good sound in A Berhinger mixer ???

Plug you moog in an Analog gear ... you will hear the difference .

I use a NEVE channel Strip, no compromise...

z g o

the behring is great zgogor

they call it "danalog" hhmm.,
the DDX3216 won much praise when it was released and it does sound very warm even tho its digital.,
but yes,.i would rather have a Neve desk

[johnypneumo]

As a novice, but avid listener, maybe your reaching just a bit.
Many posts remark to the effect that if your looking to use the
voyager to get a sound that you liked on a previous synth, maybe
your perceptions of the instrument are more about what you expected
rather then what you have. I'm an avid reader too.

I hope this isn't so camp as to sound repetitive or like
rantings of a devoted moogist. In stark contrast
to my claims, I haven't read the other posts.
Having the v up and running this morning and
using pot mapping, I had to stop by and find a way to
jump to an empty preset to save what I have.

I'm not sure, and correct me on this, but it seems
that the parameter assignments change in real time.
You don't have to go outside of the menu before hearing
the effect. If this claim proved false, I'd still feel very
fortunate to be in the same room as the moog voyager.

Hope you find more enjoyment in your use of the
mighty v.

im quite an experienced synthesist Emil,not the best but experienced
ive done a few tracks.
however i think your right,i was trying to compare my voyager with past synths,. for example i used to love recreating human league sounds such as used in "being boiled"
and i think some of my feelings were caused by exagerated memories from my past moogs - however after buying the moog librarian and loading up more and newer sounds im very happy at the sonic palette i now have with my moog,.
some of the sounds i have now are simply brilliant and DO sound like my expectations.,
last nite i felt like a diver finding pearl after pearl