Oscillators out of tune with each other and phasing.

Tips and techniques for Minimoog Analog Synthesizers
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voyager0500
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Oscillators out of tune with each other and phasing.

Post by voyager0500 » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:07 am

Hello gents, from all the way in the UK, i roam with my Voyager which i havent used for a while..

What i noticed is that when it settles after a couple of minutes i noticed that osc's 2&3 are out of tune with osc1 (when put to 0 value). osc2 needs to be at -2 and osc3 at -4 to be in tune with osc1.
Now this is very annoying especially since i noticed that only recently...

Is there a way to fix this? (i emailed moog a week ago about this and didnt get a reply yet)

Next thing is the phasing when using osc3..the bass frequency seems to 'oscillate' and i loose quite a lot of bass frequencies this way..only noticed that with the MF101, the envelope would go up and down and i thought 'wait a minute, that shouldnt be like that'

Is there a fix for that as well?

Also for some reason all three oscillators sound slighlty different from eachother when put on the same settings with osc3 being the 'weakest'

any thoughts? (included this as well in my email to moog)


The voyager is a great sidekick but couple of things are really annoying me..
Has anyone managed to do the filter glide by changing the switch to a three-rocker possition?

And hopefully my last question, is the AT fix mod worth £150 that Turnkey wants to charge me for?

Regards Lads and Lasses.

NiK

EDIT: im using 3.1 software version.
'i used to be a plastic cup..'
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OysterRock
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Re: Oscillators out of tune with each other and phasing.

Post by OysterRock » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:11 pm

voyager0500 wrote:What i noticed is that when it settles after a couple of minutes i noticed that osc's 2&3 are out of tune with osc1 (when put to 0 value). osc2 needs to be at -2 and osc3 at -4 to be in tune with osc1.


Use the master tune and they will be IN tune after a couple of minutes instead of OUT of tune. This is an analog synth, so they won't be exactly zero.

voyager0500 wrote:Next thing is the phasing when using osc3..the bass frequency seems to 'oscillate' and i loose quite a lot of bass frequencies this way..


Again, such is the nature of analog. The oscillators will never be perfectly in phase with each other. This effect can add "warmth" and "life" (much like a phaser does) but the phase cancellation can detract from bass sounds. To minimize this, change the volume of the individual oscillators so they are not all the same amplitude. Or use only 1 osc if you want DEEP bass sounds.

voyager0500
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Post by voyager0500 » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:53 pm

Hi OysterRock, thanks for your reply.
The phasing is not adding anything sorry...its only taking away..
For that phasing effect i have the MF103.

Is this the same with everyones Voyagers? the osillators being out of tune with eachother? Dont think so.
Analog yes but not analog 30 years ago. As i said osc3 sounds weaker, almost digital to my ears.

I tried a friends EB and his 2&3 osc are perfectly in tune when set to again -7
On mine i need that value between -2 and -3 if that makes sense?

I have tried changing the volumes of the oscillators and i can still hear the phase cancellation.


Also the master tune knob changes the tune of the whole instrument, not individual osc's

Thanks for your reply anyway.
NiK.
'i used to be a plastic cup..'
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till
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Post by till » Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:35 am

voyager0500 wrote:... Is this the same with everyones Voyagers? the osillators being out of tune with eachother? Dont think so.
Analog yes but not analog 30 years ago. As i said osc3 sounds weaker, almost digital to my ears.

I tried a friends EB and his 2&3 osc are perfectly in tune when set to again -7
On mine i need that value between -2 and -3 if that makes sense?

I have tried changing the volumes of the oscillators and i can still hear the phase cancellation. ...

Have you ever owned a real analog synth before?
Depending on the internal adjustemns, the zero of the oscillaotrs 2 + 3 detune might not give you the same pitch at all. And this may also change due to maturing a bit in the next years.
And there is no zero-beating tuning of analog oscillators possible at all. If they run without some cross modulation through not planned design errors, they will never lock into the same phase.
If you hear a phase canceling even with turned off oscillator 2 and 3, then there is something wrong with the usage of the synth, or some outboard gears of yours are cheating you. Maybe some FM to the filter or other modulations are still running. Use the init patch and try again.

if the thrid oscllator sound different, then there is either a modulation going on, or you have a hardware error on your Moog.
keep on turning these Moog knobs

Sequence:
Prodigy * Minimoog (1979) * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog reissues with MUSEs * One

voyager0500
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Post by voyager0500 » Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:28 pm

till wrote:If you hear a phase canceling even with turned off oscillator 2 and 3, then there is something wrong with the usage of the synth, or some outboard gears of yours are cheating you. Maybe some FM to the filter or other modulations are still running. Use the init patch and try again.

if the thrid oscllator sound different, then there is either a modulation going on, or you have a hardware error on your Moog.


Hi till
No, there is no frequency cancellation when using only one osc. And there is no modulation going on osc.3

I did send an email to Moog a week ago detailing everything...still no reply..

Nik.
'i used to be a plastic cup..'
-remarkable-

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