Harmonica Sound on Minimoog?

[MoogMusicFan81]

I suppose I could ask the same question about this in the Modular forum...

Anyways, my question here is this: does anyone know how I can make a harmonica-like sound patch for the Minimoog D? I know the late, great Vangelis (1943-2022) did something similar with his Yamaha CS-80 polysynth for the "Blade Runner Blues" song from the soundtrack of the 1982 film Blade Runner, as had Donald Fagen with his Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 for Steely Dan's "Hey Nineteen" (1980) and, from his 1982 solo debut album, "I.G.Y."

I know both of these examples were done on the aforementioned polysynths, but it sounds like they are doing single note runs (what a typical ten-hole diatonic harmonica serves).

~Ben

[ummagumma]

You could probably get close by using a slow attack & decay with both envelopes, and ride the mod wheel to articulate the filter brightness, as the note plays?

Is the D a reissue or original? Reissue has aftertouch, which might be useful to use too.

[MoogMusicFan81]

You could probably get close by using a slow attack & decay with both envelopes, and ride the mod wheel to articulate the filter brightness, as the note plays?

Is the D a reissue or original? Reissue has aftertouch, which might be useful to use too.

To be specific, I was referring to the original D.

Thank you,



Ben

[VCO]

I never knew DF was using a P5 on that track. It sounded very Minimoog like.but back in 1980 I guess a lot of people were using them. I bought a pro1 a year later. Wish I still had it. It was a great sounding synth. I love DF and steely Dan. That tune brings me back. Great tunes and DF played the Rhodes as well. All those great jazz rock arrangements. I had a Rhodes around then. They were heavy, and that was the stage piano, the suitcase was even heavier. Great sound though with those 4 12s I believe and that tremelomvibrato . I use a Yamaha cp 300 to get my Rhodes sounds Don’t have to worry about all the maintenance and parts breaking. Plus I get different patches of a normal Rhodes in stereo, the suitcase Rhodes sound and also a Rhodes with a phaser and a Rhodes with a chorus as well. Love deacon blues, reeling in the years and asia. Great song writing and instrumentals.
Sadly I always remember 1980 as the year John Lennon was murdered. The one thing you can do with the cp300 you can’t do with a real Rhodes is use the transpose feature. And to think a Rhodes didn’t even have midi back then. Although midi retrofit was a possibility. I remember a story once about DF destroying an arp odyssey and nailing it to a studio wall because it keep drifting out of tune so bad

[VCO]

I play a ten hole diatonic although I mostly use it for blues. The ten hole was originally designed to play polka music but
Chicago and delta blues men used it in an unorthodox way which became known as cross harp. There are different positions . Actually 12 but only masters can take a ten hole diatonic and play in all 12 positions. Most blues on a ten hole diatonic are done in 6 keys. A c diatonic played in cross harp will let you play a blues in g. Mostly 1st 2nd and 3rd position are used if I remember right. It’s easier to get a chromatic harp if you want to play jazz. The harmonica is hard because you can’t see what your doing. And to bend you have to learn what it feels like. All those Chicago blues harp players were masters. Little Walter George harmonica smith etc. big mama Thornton howlin wolf. The ten hole diatonic is hard but really wails for blues. I wish I had learned it earlier when I was young but wouldn’t have understood it. But my jazz knowledge helped me understand it because of the modes. But I’m really just a beginner on it but it’s a great instrument a lot cheaper than synths although can get expensive if you want to play in all your keys. Very specific set of skills and knowledge base. Sorry hop I didn’t get off to pick to much. Knowing a little about how sound is produced on a harp would help you understand how to emulate that on a synth I believe. Ask Stevie wonder lol. He plays synth keyboards harp and keys great and sings Al while being blind

[VCO]

I thought about your post and failed to mention these. Harmonics use metal reeds usually brasss or sometimes steel.
Any wave form that would emulate that metallic timbre would get you closer to the sound . Don’t know if you could use a little bit of fm to achieve that. Once you have that figured out then of course manipulating the envelopes correctly
And thirdly it’s the phrasing line wise. Harmonicas do wobbles and double stops. A worbble is playing back and forth quickly between two notes. Double stops are simply octaves. On a ten hole you have to learn to tongue block which I could never do. The Chicago cats got that down. Solo lines are tough on harmonica but being the Minimoog is monophonic you’ll have no problem there.. play blues scales , major and minor pentatonic s. Roll your minor 7ths and emphasize diminished 5ths and minor 3rds. Those are the blue notes of the scale. Outline chord tones and use enclosure s. Usedynamics. If you set one of your oscillators an octave higher you can get the effect of a double stop which is simply an octave. I know the Minimoog emulates a flute real well. I would think that would be easier to pull off. My sequential pro3 does a great job at emulating a flute even down to it overblowingThere’s a technique called overblowing for harps which is really hard. The pro3 has a wavetable oscillator which makes it easier. Listen to Stevie wonder and listen to his phrasing. He’s mostly known for his chromatic harp playing but plays 10 hole as well. I once met sugar blue the harmonica player that played on The Rolling Stones tune miss you. I saw him at a town not to far from me. I bought his album and had him sign it and asked him about little Walter muddy waters harmonica player but he said little Walter was before his time. I really dig that DF solo it really does sound like a harmonica he has that phrasing down . Hope I helped you get a little closer to approaching the sound of a harmonica take care

[VCO]

The other aspect of playing the harp is the syncopation. 8th note triplets and 8th notes and 16th notes combined with your phrasing will make a more convincing harp solo. I know this from playing jazz on the piano. If you can swing. It will make all the difference although on a synth action is harder to swing on then a weighted keyboard like a piano action or even something similar to a Rhodes action, although I’ve heard Hammond organ players swing but that’s a different instrument all together take care

[VCO]

Sorry I keep remembering other things. Most blues is in 4/4 or 6/8 and is a 12 bar form that’s why I if you can mix up playing 8th note triplets 8th notes and 16th note phrases it works really well in those time signatures. And certain slow tempos will let you double time easier.

[VCO]

Some harmonica players to check out
Howard Levy
Kim Wilson
Sonnyboy Williamson
Big Walter Horton
Shakey Horton
Little Walter
Big MamaThorton
Stevie Wonder
Toots Thielman
Billyboy Arnold

Some of these players genres range from jazz to blues to country
Hope this helps
Buy a Hohner special20 harmonica 10 hole diatonic in the key of C
This will give you insight to how a harmonica produces its sound
There not to expensive but everything costs more now
That particular harmonica is easier to learn how to bend on
There’s a lot more choices now but the Chicago harp players used the marine band
Those have pearwood combs
The special 20 has a plastic comb
And using a microphone I and amp is a whole subject in itself
Use the minimoogs filter to get a wah wah effect, harmonica players cup thier hand to get that musical effect. Maybe
You could even use awah wahpedal on the Minimoog hope this information is helpful and gets you closer to a harmonica emulation. Work on your phrasing and breathing because real harmonica players have to rest because they blow and draw all the time to support thier sound. I learned how to play the harmonica after a traumatic brain injury that almost killed me and I suffered from post traumatic stress disorder and learning to play the harp helped me focus on something else other than my injury. Take care hope this gives you more insight to the harmonica

[MoogMusicFan81]

I never knew DF was using a P5 on that track. It sounded very Minimoog like.but back in 1980 I guess a lot of people were using them. I bought a pro1 a year later. Wish I still had it. It was a great sounding synth. I love DF and steely Dan. That tune brings me back. Great tunes and DF played the Rhodes as well. All those great jazz rock arrangements. I had a Rhodes around then. They were heavy, and that was the stage piano, the suitcase was even heavier. Great sound though with those 4 12s I believe and that tremelomvibrato . I use a Yamaha cp 300 to get my Rhodes sounds Don’t have to worry about all the maintenance and parts breaking. Plus I get different patches of a normal Rhodes in stereo, the suitcase Rhodes sound and also a Rhodes with a phaser and a Rhodes with a chorus as well. Love deacon blues, reeling in the years and asia. Great song writing and instrumentals.
Sadly I always remember 1980 as the year John Lennon was murdered. The one thing you can do with the cp300 you can’t do with a real Rhodes is use the transpose feature. And to think a Rhodes didn’t even have midi back then. Although midi retrofit was a possibility. I remember a story once about DF destroying an arp odyssey and nailing it to a studio wall because it keep drifting out of tune so bad

I am also wondering... would pulse width modulation (what the huge modulars had but the Minimoog D lacks) be necessary to better achieve this gritty, metallic reedy sound I'm after?

Here's the story of Donald Fagen being fed up with his ARP Soloist and destroying it:
https://sdarchive.com/dennys.html

~Ben

[ummagumma]

Ha! I bet it was like the photocopier scene in "office space"

[VCO]

Junior Wells and Charlie Musclewhite are harmonica players that played with Muddy Waters. junior Wells calls harmonicas
Mississippi Saxophones

[VCO]

10 hole diatonicshave the ability to play chords as well. There are different tunings available. So if you play diatonic chords from the scale your using you can arpeggiate them. Like for instance if you played a major scale which would give you 7 triads. The qualities the scale produce are major,minor,minor,major,major,minor,diminished. This is very easy to play on a keyboard because keyboards are linear. I can’t play diatonic tiads in order on the 10 hole I’m not that skilled
I can just play a blues form with chords, one,four,five7 and blow the blues scales. To get the diatonic triads you would be playing in first position. So if you know different scale types and understand the concept of modes you can play triads and 7th chords. It’s much easier to do this on a keyboard. I can’t do all those modes and diatonic chords on a ten hole. I’m a one trick pony but at least I can play a blues on a 10 hole harp. It can go with you were ever you go. You just put it in your pocket. A cdiatonic 10 hole harmonica in C let’s you play in C major, a blues in G, and let’s you play in D minor