Voyager HP FIlter? I Think Not!

Tips and techniques for Minimoog Analog Synthesizers
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Markyboard
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Voyager HP FIlter? I Think Not!

Post by Markyboard » Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:53 am

I was showing a friend the Matriarch last week, specifically the independent control you have with each filter and VCA when patching. I then moved over to my Voyager to show him the HP/LP separation and how setting the poles can optimize this separation. Only I was quickly scratching my head wondering why lowering the number of poles on filter 2 made the sound brighter. My understanding was filter 2 is the HP, filter 1 is the LP and they’re connected in series and output to both stereo L/R outputs.

WRONG!

Turns out after much research both filter 1 and filter 2 are LP filters independent of which filter mode you use (LP/LP or HP/LP). The poles selection is for each LP filter. So where’s the HP filter? It doesn’t have one (almost). At least not in the conventional sense we geeks grew up with using capacitors/resistors. What the Voyager has instead is a subtractor circuit. I wasn’t previously familiar with this but it’s pretty simple; subtract the LP filtered signal from the original signal (mixer output) and you’re left with the high frequencies only. I guess this is also a type of filter (cough) although all the control (cutoff, modulation) is done with the low pass filter feeding it. The output of this “subtractor” is then sent to the other LP filter (LP1) and output to both VCAs.

So what’s the problem? Well for one thing in HP/LP mode you have 3 things at play here; the LP filter 2 >> subtractor>>LP1 filter all being controlled by the same cutoff control. The spacing control still does it’s thing of decreasing LP2 cutoff independent of LP1. But who knows what’s doing what when you hear the final sound?

Also, that subtractor works in theory, but only if the signals you want to subtract are the same. The amplitude of the mixer output is much greater than that of the LP2 filter output. Subsequently what you hear is a whole lot of the unfiltered mixer signal. Fortunately, there is a calibration adjustment trimmer to balance the unfiltered mixer signal with the LP filtered output. But on my Voyager, it was set to give the lowest amount of mixer output signal and yet it still dominated the sound. I’ve also read there are phasing issues associated with this subtractor type approach but I don’t think it’s really an issue here as far as I can tell. It is after all a synthesizer.

So how was I able to determine all this? I separated this “HP” filter from the in-series LP1 filter by adding a switch. In the off position the Voyager provide the 2 stock filter modes untouched. In the on position I get (selected with filter mode switch)...

HP/LP1 in parallel where the Left side VCA outputs HP only and the Right side VCA outputs LP1

or…

HP/HP>>LP1 where the left side VCA outputs HP only (still) and the right side outputs HP>>LP1

Not sure how useful this last one is but what the heck.

In HP/LP mode I was able to adjust the mentioned trimmer to give a well-defined HP filter output. I set it so that at the highest cutoff frequency the sound almost disappears. It’s wonderful! But calibrating this way screws up the stock HP/LP mode making the mixer output even more dominant. I ended up adding a second trimmer pot that get switched in (using the same added switch) to optimize the balance for all modes.

Being a fan of HP and other less popular filters this turned out to be a huge improvement for me.
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ummagumma
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Re: Voyager HP FIlter? I Think Not!

Post by ummagumma » Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:45 am

That is pretty wild!! Great explanation

I suppose they did that because there is only 1x cutoff & 1x resonance control, for both?

Nice mod idea....

Markyboard
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Re: Voyager HP FIlter? I Think Not!

Post by Markyboard » Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:10 am

Thanks Umma.

Regarding why they did it this way? As a very wise man recently wrote..."now we have no chance to ask the developer". :wink:

EricK
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Re: Voyager HP FIlter? I Think Not!

Post by EricK » Sun Aug 15, 2021 12:22 pm

Markyboard wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:10 am Regarding why they did it this way? As a very wise man recently wrote..."now we have no chance to ask the developer". :wink:
There isn't a reason why you can't ask the developer. :wink:
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https://moogfoundation.org/do-something-2/donate/

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ummagumma
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Re: Voyager HP FIlter? I Think Not!

Post by ummagumma » Sun Aug 15, 2021 1:47 pm

Sure, go get your Ouija board!

:lol:

Markyboard
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Re: Voyager HP FIlter? I Think Not!

Post by Markyboard » Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:27 pm

:D

Btw I’m working on Rev A. The HP on one side and series HP into LP on the other is just stupid. I’m going to modify this to have mono HP coming through both channels instead. Just waiting on a new part. The stereo HP/LP is fantastic - my favorite out of all 4 filter configurations.

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Re: Voyager HP FIlter? I Think Not!

Post by EricK » Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:41 pm

ummagumma wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 1:47 pm Sure, go get your Ouija board
The man primarily responsible for the Voyager's sound engine recently fixed my modular power supply and restored my Roland DC-50. :lol:
Support the Bob Moog Foundation:
https://moogfoundation.org/do-something-2/donate/

I think I hear the mothership coming.

Markyboard
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Re: Voyager HP FIlter? I Think Not!

Post by Markyboard » Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:43 pm

Some of us were led to believe it was Bob Moog who was "responsible" for the sound engine, i.e the analog circuitry. If you know differently I'd love to know who that was. Or better yet send him a link to this thread.

Attempting to contain my geek enthusiasm I'll just give a quick update.

Rev A now has the following configurations;

LP/LP Stereo: untouched from original
HP/LP Serial: I decided in the end that the original mode is just not good. It doesn't sound like a bandpass filter, just a mix of everything and nothing too exciting. My modified mode is calibrated such that the HP component (LP into subtractor) now behaves like a HP filter (much improved). And it now has resonance unlike the original which when switched into HP/LP biases out the resonance. Also the spacing control now is such that the 12:00 position is where it matches the cutoff knob. This way you can shift the HP cutoff to the right of the LP as well as to the left, just like a real BP filter. Still mono into both outputs.
LP/HP Stereo: with LP on the left and HP on the right- wonderful!
HP/HP Mono: At High cutoff and resonance just before feedback this things sizzles now :shock: .

This turned out better than I thought! I hope to have a demo shortly.

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ummagumma
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Re: Voyager HP FIlter? I Think Not!

Post by ummagumma » Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:59 pm

That sounds really cool!!!

Congratulations on figuring it out!

Markyboard
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Re: Voyager HP FIlter? I Think Not!

Post by Markyboard » Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:35 pm

Thanks again Umma. I did have to go back in and re calibrate this morning after noticing the modified HP/LP mode was much lower in overall amplitude than the other 3 modes. I had gone a bit overboard with attempting to squelch those lower frequencies calibrating at a very high resonance setting which caused exactly what I described. Fixed now.

Markyboard
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Re: Voyager HP FIlter? I Think Not!

Post by Markyboard » Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:33 pm

I've made a couple more revisions (now up to rev C) with my "HP filter" modification. Hopefully this demo video is a bit clearer as to what this is all about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKC1273OYFY

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