Making more "unclean" sounds in the direction of ARP and MS20 with the Voyager XL

Tips and techniques for Minimoog Analog Synthesizers
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purpurkatten
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Making more "unclean" sounds in the direction of ARP and MS20 with the Voyager XL

Post by purpurkatten » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:25 am

I´m getting more familiar with the "regular" Voyager sounds of my Voyager XL. And the XL, of course, is capable of making a lot more other sounds on top of that.

I remember a Sound on Sound-review, https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/mo ... voyager-xl,
and it says the following.

"From common facilities such as PWM and sync, to the dual filters, to the selectable filter cutoff slopes (which make it capable of creating sounds reminiscent of other revered synths such as ARPs and early Korgs), to velocity and pressure sensitivity, to the myriad patching options and software-controlled modulation capabilities... the XL demonstrates the huge gulf between 1971 and 2011. ... Consequently, powerful bass and creamy lead sounds ooze out of it unbidden, while MS20‑style basses and all the squelches and farts of electronica and dance music are just a filter tweak away."

I made a search in this forum, but the search engine is not so forthcoming to me, I´m afraid.

So I´m left with you, fellow forum members, to point me in the right direction of existing information. Surely there must have been a lot of discussions in this forum during the years illustrating how to really take advantage of the XL for new sonic possibilities on top of the Voyager sounds, and possibly in just that more "unclean" ARP and MS20-direction. Any tips, tutorials, cook-books etc and forum topics that I should look into?

Very grateful for your insights
Last edited by purpurkatten on Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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till
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Re: Making more "unclean" sounds in the direction of ARP and MS20 with the Voyager XL

Post by till » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:46 am

With much resonance and using the filter spacing you get some different character. But I never got close a MS-20 like sound.
keep on turning these Moog knobs

Sequence:
Prodigy * minimoog '79 * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog 2017+ MUSE * One 16

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Re: Making more "unclean" sounds in the direction of ARP and MS20 with the Voyager XL

Post by purpurkatten » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:31 pm

till wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:46 am With much resonance and using the filter spacing you get some different character. But I never got close a MS-20 like sound.
Ok, thanks for the reply. I was talking about using the extra features of the XL to expand the sound horizon and get it to more Arp and MS20 territory, like the SOS review says.

Again, the SOS review talks about "facilities such as PWM and sync, to the dual filters, to the selectable filter cutoff slopes (which make it capable of creating sounds reminiscent of other revered synths such as ARPs and early Korgs)". Are there any practical examples anywhere on how to achieve this with the XL?

Thankful for you input, guys

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ummagumma
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Re: Making more "unclean" sounds in the direction of ARP and MS20 with the Voyager XL

Post by ummagumma » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:38 pm

I have never tried to emulate an MS20, but have you tried changing the filter poles to 1 or 2, instead of 4?

you can also get some rude sounds by patching/modulating at audio rate, various things by LFO1 & LFO2

there was a guy on youtube who did some interesting stuff with an XL. I think he patched keyboard velocity to LFO rate, and had that modulating pitch? it did some crazy stuff with the stock presets.

can't find it, but he mostly mumbles thru the vid, so you turn up the volume...then the keyboard levels will take your head off

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Re: Making more "unclean" sounds in the direction of ARP and MS20 with the Voyager XL

Post by purpurkatten » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:55 pm

ummagumma wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:38 pm I have never tried to emulate an MS20, but have you tried changing the filter poles to 1 or 2, instead of 4?

you can also get some rude sounds by patching/modulating at audio rate, various things by LFO1 & LFO2

there was a guy on youtube who did some interesting stuff with an XL. I think he patched keyboard velocity to LFO rate, and had that modulating pitch? it did some crazy stuff with the stock presets.

can't find it, but he mostly mumbles thru the vid, so you turn up the volume...then the keyboard levels will take your head off
Thanks! Do you perhaps have any links that further explain your suggestions?

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Re: Making more "unclean" sounds in the direction of ARP and MS20 with the Voyager XL

Post by ummagumma » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:59 pm

if you experiment you will surely discover something

check this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k5I5DXEG6g

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Re: Making more "unclean" sounds in the direction of ARP and MS20 with the Voyager XL

Post by purpurkatten » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:29 pm

ummagumma wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:59 pm if you experiment you will surely discover something

check this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k5I5DXEG6g
That guy has the ordinary Voyager, not the Voyager XL, so he cannot make the XL sounds I´m asking for.

Yet again, I´m talking about taking advantage of the XL into a direction that the ordinary Voyager can´t do, among those -- according to Sound on Sound -- making it sound more like and Arp or MS20.

Sure, I experiment all the time. But if other people already have discovered things, especially in the direction I´m talking about, I´d rather learn from them and spend more time making music with those sounds, than unnecessarily spending a lot of time inventing the wheel.

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Re: Making more "unclean" sounds in the direction of ARP and MS20 with the Voyager XL

Post by till » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:38 pm

facilities such as PWM and sync, to the dual filters, to the selectable filter cutoff slopes (which make it capable of creating sounds reminiscent of other revered synths such as ARPs and early Korgs)
These are not specific Voyager XL features. You can change the filter slopes on all Voyager, except the Old School Voyager in the menus. There is a dedicated rocker switch for sync in the VCO section of all Voyager models. The PWM is done on all Voyager models by the modulating the VCO WAVE parameter (which works on all VCOs at the same time).

The XL does not feature a different sound quality. It "just" got more modulation possibilities, especially if combined with other gear like a modular or a Moogerfooger pedal.

Hope this helps to clear this.
keep on turning these Moog knobs

Sequence:
Prodigy * minimoog '79 * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog 2017+ MUSE * One 16

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Re: Making more "unclean" sounds in the direction of ARP and MS20 with the Voyager XL

Post by ummagumma » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:45 pm

purpurkatten wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:29 pm
ummagumma wrote: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:59 pm if you experiment you will surely discover something

check this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k5I5DXEG6g
That guy has the ordinary Voyager, not the Voyager XL, so he cannot make the XL sounds I´m asking for.

Yet again, I´m talking about taking advantage of the XL into a direction that the ordinary Voyager can´t do, among those -- according to Sound on Sound -- making it sound more like and Arp or MS20.

Sure, I experiment all the time. But if other people already have discovered things, especially in the direction I´m talking about, I´d rather learn from them and spend more time making music with those sounds, than unnecessarily spending a lot of time inventing the wheel.
hello??

that link is a good starting point for getting the types of sounds you are asking about. did you watch it?

the XL is a Voyager. it sounds like a Voyager, but has more modulation options

are you new to synthesis? it would be worth your while to observe non Voyager XL techniques, because they apply

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Re: Making more "unclean" sounds in the direction of ARP and MS20 with the Voyager XL

Post by purpurkatten » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:00 pm

Ok, thanks guys for the clarifications.

There is apparently, according to your experience, no real sonic difference between the regular and XL Voyager versions. The patching possibilities of the XL is in itself a minor addition to its sonic character, it´s basically making variations of the same sound, not expanding the sound in a new character approaching other different synthesizers.

Apparently I misread the review that the XL should sound different than the regular Voyager. So I guess the Sound On Sound-reviewer Gordon Reid instead meant that all Voyagers -- both the regular and XL version -- have a character that approach the Arp and MS20, at least compared to the old Minimoog.

But, as I read you guys in this forum, if that was what he meant, in that sense, unfortunately, Gordon Reid of Sound On Sound was incorrect. Nobody here has made the Voyager sound like an Arp or MS20.

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Re: Making more "unclean" sounds in the direction of ARP and MS20 with the Voyager XL

Post by stiiiiiiive » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:17 pm

What I understood from the extract you copied here is that setting the Voyager's filter slope to less than 4 poles could remind those synths -that have filter with less poles, AFAIK.

Do the Voyager, Voyager XL, Voyager Old School etc have the same character? Yep.

Will a Voyager sound like an MS-20? Well, it depends what you mean by "sound like". If you're talking pure sonic character, I doubt it will. Now, sometimes, a synth personality is partly made of its modulations capabilities (or anything else like note priority etc); I mean comparing synths is not just about comparing oscillators, then filters then... Sometimes, it's about comparing how artists make them sound, as a whole: sound + modulations + performance techniques etc.

Just my two cents :)

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Re: Making more "unclean" sounds in the direction of ARP and MS20 with the Voyager XL

Post by ummagumma » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:07 am

yes: Voyager, Voyager XL, Voyager RME all have the same sound engine, and can share patches between them

the XL basically has the VX351/2 and CP351 built in, plus some other stuff

if I were trying to emulate an MS20, I would start watching MS20 tutorials and then apply the same techniques to the Moog

although it's a different instrument, so you may need to get creative with approximating the sound. ie: some techniques from that vid I posted above

good luck!!

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Re: Making more "unclean" sounds in the direction of ARP and MS20 with the Voyager XL

Post by Analog Prophet » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:09 am

As far I'm aware of the additional mod features XLs has is a built in VX-351, CP-251, a ribbon control and a larger keyboard. All that can be added to a standard Voyager but is of course very nice to have in one unit. And it looks gorgeous.

I have made sounds on my (non XL) Voyager that is very close in character to Arp Pro Soloist and similar. The secret was to use 2-pole (12dB/oct) filter instead of standard 4-pole filter (24dB/oct filter). I don’t remember the slope of filter of some Arps and MS-20, but regardless what it is the 2-pole filter of the Voyager definitely come closer. For that I use a single oscillator and sometimes just add a small amount of a second.

I tried very serious to mimic a sound I heard from an LP i listened much to as a teenager. I didn’t nailed it 100% but very close. When I then tried the same thing with an Arp 2600 I understood it was an 2600 used. But the the Voyager came close with the technique I described.

Also try other filter settings. And in mono.

Some older synth patches heard on record many times use aslight of vibrato. Try to add that. If I remember right there is a breakpoint around 11 where the vibrato is almost not heard until it is too much.

I have not been forced to use my VX-351 or other modulations to mimic those kind of sounds
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Re: Making more "unclean" sounds in the direction of ARP and MS20 with the Voyager XL

Post by ummagumma » Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:22 am

Analog Prophet, curious: what was the recording? was it Joe Zawinul?

or maybe Herbie?

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Re: Making more "unclean" sounds in the direction of ARP and MS20 with the Voyager XL

Post by Analog Prophet » Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:51 am

No, it was a local Swedish artist during the time recording studios still were populated by men in white coats. Even if I’m not into jazz I can’t deny the greatness of Herbie and Joe Zawinul as synth performers.

To derail this thread completely: Speak of white coats, that is something I can envision, and talked for years of with my hard-core-synth friends, as a statement in the studio for times when the computer is turned off and man machine with the analog synths and sequencers jamming. Maybe time to achieve some white coats to wear for me and anyone enter the studio such delightful nights... maybe cotton gloves as well :)
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