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Reissue waveform loudness

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Reissue waveform loudness

Postby Marzzz » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:17 am

For some reason, I am just now noticing that the triangle and sharktooth waveforms are significantly quieter than saw/square/pulse. I know they have less harmonic content/higher harmonics, but I am finding I have to turn up the volume somewhat to get a patch as loud as the others. For example, if I have the main output set at "2" I have to push it to "3" to balance the loudness. Am I just imagining things?? I somehow don't remember this happening previously. For the record, this is with low amounts of Emphasis (resonance) and filter fairly wide open.
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Re: Reissue waveform loudness

Postby ummagumma » Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:09 am

yep I believe that is normal & due to the harmonic content

I just tested mine & it does the same

also see here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/c ... aw_square/
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Re: Reissue waveform loudness

Postby Marzzz » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:50 pm

Yeah, I thought so- I must have been either going senile, or haven't used the triangle/sharktooth waveforms much lately!
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Re: Reissue waveform loudness

Postby unfiltered37 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:06 am

yeah, you have to experiment with the other waveforms at lower volumes to get a better idea of how they affect the sound, because otherwise the louder and brighter sound will sound better every time. Which is deceptive, like when playing a polyphonic instrument. I play clavinet, and if left to my own devices, will try to play many notes at the same time, because "louder is better". Then I decided to experiment, and squash it down to almost no dynamics. My playing changed quite a bit when one note was just as loud as 8 notes. And I found out that most orchestral string instruments were designed with loudness as the number one factor. The makers knew that louder is better, so they went to extreme measures to get louder. Now even modern instruments still have an absurd amount of string tension, so much so that they had to have large braces which affect the tone in order to support it, and they have to be maintained all the time because the thin pieces of wood can't handle it.

Then I heard baroque stringed instruments, and was astonished how amazing they sound. I had always hated the bright screechy sound of the violin and the viola and even the cello sounds harsh in the upper registers, but the baroque instruments have much less tension and just sound open and mellow. yes, they have gut strings, but I have heard regular instruments with gut and they still sound harsh.
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Re: Reissue waveform loudness

Postby ummagumma » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:42 pm

unfiltered, that is fascinating about the baroque vs modern instruments!
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Re: Reissue waveform loudness

Postby unfiltered37 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:06 pm

ummagumma wrote:unfiltered, that is fascinating about the baroque vs modern instruments!


yeah, i was astonished listening to a violin and being taken by it's sweet mellow beauty. I also like to watch these string instrument repair videos, and see how the impractical design of instruments like even the acoustic guitar are geared towards a IMO obsolete ideal of loudness and brightness. I even heard a luthier say the ideal instrument is one that is just one the verge of breaking apart due to the fragility of the wood and tension. Also, I play bass, a short scale vintage hofner beatle bass, and tried these strings called TI jazz flats when i first got it over a decade ago. Whereas I used to get large guage roundwound strings and replace them every couple of months or so, I found the feel (not to mention warm woody sound) of the extremely low tension strings incredible, and add to that a short scale, which is even lower tension, and I tune down a half step as well, so they feel like wet noodles. The benefit is that I can do stuff with finger plucking that is impossible to sustain on a normal bass. and the sound is the polar opposite of the standard tinny bright bass sound that is so ubiquitous. It is deep, boomy, and woody to the max, yet I have superior control of the strings, so I can play incredibly fast and articulate. Why are most all basses bright and tinny? because of the need to "cut through" the mix, meaning louder and brighter. Which was my goal as well for so long, until I learned mixing and engineering. Now I realize I can sound as bass forward as I want having control of the mix, while still retaining that old school and increasingly rare dark bass tone. And while the strings cost double to triple the amount of regular strings, I still have the first set I bought when i bought the bass on it, over ten years and still going strong, still sound the same as they did after breaking them in for 7 and a half years.
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Re: Reissue waveform loudness

Postby ummagumma » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:36 pm

"I even heard a luthier say the ideal instrument is one that is just one the verge of breaking apart due to the fragility of the wood and tension"

that does ring true: something I noticed about a great sounding Martin OM style acoustic I have: it feels very fragile, the top is thin, and I even keep it tuned down a whole step, to reduce the strain. But it sounds fantastic

I have heard about those TI jazz flat strings, not had a chance to try yet. I only change my bass strings when they break! :D

maybe I'll try them on my old Gibson EB-0: it's short scale, muddy ( due mostly to the pickup! ) and ripe for a change

thx for posting! great info
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