Aftertouch in MIDI?

Tips and techniques for Minimoog Analog Synthesizers
Post Reply
mpaulcurreri
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:20 pm

Aftertouch in MIDI?

Post by mpaulcurreri » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:36 am

Oh woe! It seems the Model D can send aftertouch info in MIDI, but alas, cannot receive that aftertouch info? Suuuuuuch a bummer!

Iaamusic
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:26 pm

Re: Aftertouch in MIDI?

Post by Iaamusic » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:58 pm

But... it can accept CV from the keyboard which is more than the original could!

Ian

mpaulcurreri
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:20 pm

Re: Aftertouch in MIDI?

Post by mpaulcurreri » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:58 pm

Without question, Ian! And I most appreciate that. I just got so excited when I saw my DAW receiving the aftertouch info as I was recording. But alas, upon playback, the Model D can’t READ that info.

I was wondering tho... I’m admittedly not a MIDI ninja... is there ANY way to make it happen? would a MIDI —> CV converter allow the Model D to receive aftertouch MIDI info? (And if so, would it have to be something fancy like a Kenton Pro solo? Or would a simpler model suffice?

Any expert advice would be most appreciated!!
Thanks!

Kenton Pro solo 2: https://www.perfectcircuit.com/kenton-pro-solo-mk2.html

User avatar
Analog Prophet
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:25 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Aftertouch in MIDI?

Post by Analog Prophet » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:04 am

You’ll need convert MIDI after touch to CV and direct that CV signal to the after touch to a jack, for instance filter, or with a split cable to multiple CV inputs of the Model D Reissue top panel.

Im not in the studio right now, but I’m pretty sure In my case it can be achieved from the DAW via the Minimoog Voyager > VX351 CV Breakout box from the Voyager (kbd press to multiple and out from there) > CV cable to a target of the after touch at the Model D Reissie such filter.

Similar trick, and other CV tricks, would be easily achieved by Kenton Pro Solist via CV or Aux out:

https://www.kentonuk.com/products/items ... solo.shtml (recently new released model and successor to mk 2).

Actually, In my ears, both the Voyager and the Model D sounds better when controlled from CV instead of from MIDI or internal keyboard. If it's by the control voltage and bad cables or just placebo I don’t know, but as long I’m happy with it it doesn’t matter ;)
_____________________________________________
http://www.soundofmusic.se

mpaulcurreri
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:20 pm

Re: Aftertouch in MIDI?

Post by mpaulcurreri » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:11 am

Thanks Analog Prophet.
I really appreciate the response. The Kenton Pro Solo sounds like a good option, although I've read that a lot of people experience a strange "digital whine" when using it. There certainly seem to be a lot of options -- the 2000, the USB model, etc.

Essentially, if possible, I'm just looking to be able to play my Model D into my DAW much like I do w. my Sub37.
In other words, 1. record my performance (including aftertouch, and mod wheel). 2. then be able to go into my DAW, move MIDI notes, adjust aftertouch if necessary, etc. And then 3., of course, record the output of those changed MIDI notes -- aftertouch and all.

The Model D Reissue of course can ALREADY do this with the MIDI notes (which I'm thankful for), just not the aftertouch / mod wheel.

If the Kentons can do this, great. If there is a cheaper option, GREATER!!!!

User avatar
Analog Prophet
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:25 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Aftertouch in MIDI?

Post by Analog Prophet » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:21 pm

I had a Kenton 2000 before, to my former Model D Vintage, to my DAW and was happy with it.
_____________________________________________
http://www.soundofmusic.se

mpaulcurreri
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:20 pm

Re: Aftertouch in MIDI?

Post by mpaulcurreri » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:10 pm

Cool. Of course the vintage Model D’s didn’t have the capacity for aftertouch. I’m quite pleased with what the reissues can do on their own w MIDI — reading notes, clock, arpeggios, etc. But yeah, adding aftertouch to the MIDI capability would be sensational.

Iaamusic
Posts: 145
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:26 pm

Re: Aftertouch in MIDI?

Post by Iaamusic » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:31 pm

One thing I’ve done is record midi note data in DAW and on audio record rather than use aftertouch I’ve manually tweaked the parameter, I think it was filter cutoff. Not as good but aftertouch is not often subtle!

Anyway good luck with the midi-CV converter if that’s where you’re heading.

mpaulcurreri
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:20 pm

Re: Aftertouch in MIDI?

Post by mpaulcurreri » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:54 pm

Indeed, I’ve certainly done that as well, iaamusic. That works fantastically for certain applications / styles of music. But the aftertouch on the reissue — when the trim is set properly — can be a very expressive, even subtle source of variety and modulation. Synthesizers are too rarely responding directly to our bodies (unlike, say, a guitar), so any opportunity Is one to be championed!

FlavioB
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 2:56 pm

Re: Aftertouch in MIDI?

Post by FlavioB » Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:56 pm

Hi all.
So "natively" the Model D reissue does not understand incoming MIDI aftertouch? Is this a setting, which could be changed with a firmware upgrade?

Thanks,
Flavio.
Last edited by FlavioB on Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
till
Posts: 1364
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:17 pm
Location: south-west Germany
Contact:

Re: Aftertouch in MIDI?

Post by till » Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:56 pm

FlavioB wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:56 pmSo "natively" the Model D reissue does not understand incoming MIDI aftertouch? Is this a setting, which could be change with a firmware upgrade?
Yes, the reissued Minimoogs are able to not receive aftertouch as a parameter for some modulation or whatever. And no, this is not a software thing, as there is no external MIDI to CV converter free to send aftertouch modulation to the filter or somewhere else. Technically only a aftertouch to pitch would be possible by a software update. But this would not be that useful at all. So I bet it will never happen.

So I bought the "MUSE" additional board (https://www.virtual-music.at/en/moog/) to modify my reissue to receive aftertouch to control a modulation you would blend in by the modwheel. So I can use MIDI send to the reissue Minimoog or the build in keyboard to add vibrato or other modulations without using a second hand.
keep on turning these Moog knobs

Sequence:
Prodigy * minimoog '79 * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog 2017+ MUSE * One 16

FlavioB
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 2:56 pm

Re: Aftertouch in MIDI?

Post by FlavioB » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:20 pm

till wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:56 pm
FlavioB wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:56 pmSo "natively" the Model D reissue does not understand incoming MIDI aftertouch? Is this a setting, which could be change with a firmware upgrade?
Yes, the reissued Minimoogs are able to not receive aftertouch as a parameter for some modulation or whatever. And no, this is not a software thing, as there is no external MIDI to CV converter free to send aftertouch modulation to the filter or somewhere else. Technically only a aftertouch to pitch would be possible by a software update. But this would not be that useful at all. So I bet it will never happen.
Well, actually the board inside the reissue Model D has a jumper with the text "MIDI Touch / Internal Touch / Both" and there are 3 lines/traces from the internal MIDI interface to serve for
a) generate internal touch
b) generate MIDI touch

Interestingly, on the MIDI board the components for the MIDI touch have not been installed by Moog. Maybe they experienced issues?

F.

udream
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:15 pm

Re: Aftertouch in MIDI?

Post by udream » Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:32 pm

What a shame the Minimoog reissue didn't have more features. I installed a Linntronics midi upgrade on my original Minimoog. It now responds to midi aftertouch, velocity, PB/MW, sustain, expression pedal, and adds an extra LFO with multiple waveforms, including sample & hold.

FlavioB
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 2:56 pm

Re: Aftertouch in MIDI?

Post by FlavioB » Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:58 am

udream wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:32 pm What a shame the Minimoog reissue didn't have more features. I installed a Linntronics midi upgrade on my original Minimoog. It now responds to midi aftertouch, velocity, PB/MW, sustain, expression pedal, and adds an extra LFO with multiple waveforms, including sample & hold.
Agreed :-/
F.

Post Reply