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Voyager: possible to damage ext in, with hot signal?

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Voyager: possible to damage ext in, with hot signal?

Postby ummagumma » Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:40 pm

I have been experimenting with boost & drive FX via the external input on my voyager

( the mix-out/insert cable I built via Knobtweak instructions is working great! )

as this involves overloading the signal, often over 20dB, I wanted to confirm it's not going to damage anything internally?

I don't want to blow any op amps etc

thanks!
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Re: Voyager: possible to damage ext in, with hot signal?

Postby MC » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:15 pm

Not impossible, and probably exempt from the warranty.
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Re: Voyager: possible to damage ext in, with hot signal?

Postby GregAE » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:49 am

ummagumma wrote:I have been experimenting with boost & drive FX via the external input on my voyager

(the mix-out/insert cable I built via Knobtweak instructions is working great! )


Ummagumma,

In case you missed it on KnobTweak, you might take a look at this article:

Kicking It Up A Notch - Overdrive techniques on the Voyager.

Location: KT > Files > Voyager

Greg
KnobTweak - The Moog Gear & App Resource
A place to share Patches, Setups, Techniques, Instruction, Ideas and more...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KnobTweak
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Re: Voyager: possible to damage ext in, with hot signal?

Postby ummagumma » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:22 am

thanks guys!

I built the TRS-->TS cable, which lets you blend the effect in via EXT, while preserving the regular signal. based on the diagram by "Hoax"

FYI the pedal I am liking the most so far is a Radial "Regency": it has a boost section, a drive section with EQ, and even an FX loop

fwiw here is a clip of me messing with it:

https://soundcloud.com/user-200002765/voyager-radial

moog filter was rolled off quite a bit until 5min or so
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Re: Voyager: possible to damage ext in, with hot signal?

Postby Markyboard » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:39 pm

Always one of my favorite topics. I discussed this a few months ago in this thread. https://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31122&p=171332#p171332

However I never finished documenting my final configuration so... what I found through much experimenting is that most distortion/overdrive/fuzz pedals have a huge amount of gain. The only input that handles these pedal outputs "correctly" is my mixer with +4dBu return inputs. Connecting the pedal output directly into the Voyager or a Moogerfooger (midi Murf or Midi Boost in my experimenting) caused that device to quickly overload with all but the most minimal signal. That's the distortion I was hearing, not what the distortion pedal itself was generating. It took me a while to realize this and why no matter how I set my Empress multidrive pedal (selecting fuzz, overdrive, or distortion) and varying the gain and eq and it always sounded pretty much the same.

I ended up and am very happy with Voyager>> Mixer Send>> Reamp>>MF Boost>> Empress>> Mixer return. I still add in Voyager feedback
from the Headphone output to the External input under pedal CC controlling the external Input level.

You may find different results - I'll be interested to know.
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Re: Voyager: possible to damage ext in, with hot signal?

Postby ummagumma » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:00 pm

right! that thread was before I built the mixer cable, and prompted me to get going on it!

I agree, all my other pedals were much too dramatic & had no range; it was pretty much all-or-nothing

I will try using a mixer in the chain;

although the first thing I tried was just a mixer, to boost the signal: it was one of those cheap 70's radio shack things, that doesn't have much headroom. it actually worked pretty well, for what it was

thanks for contributing!
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Re: Voyager: possible to damage ext in, with hot signal?

Postby Markyboard » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:15 am

Glad I could help (maybe). A few more thoughts. Using a mixer for the send signal is also a bit tricky and you may have already encountered this. At +4 dBm line level mixer output is too much signal for the distortion pedal input- at least with my Empress pedal. Simply turning down the send level at the mixer (and I had to turn it down a lot) resulted in additional unwanted noise and I was back to the "all or none" scenario with controlling the distortion pedal. On the other hand using the Voyager Insert send (or any instrument level) may not provide enough signal and result in extra noise but I cant say for sure since I was focused on using this output for the internal feedback. For this purpose the insert was definitely too weak of a signal and I found the Headphone output much more effective. For driving the Empress distortion I got the best results using the mixer send into a Reamp device first but it really took some experimenting to convince myself that this was so.

Also while I believe I optimized the S/N, distortion pedals are inherently noisy by design (lot of gain, lots o pain). It's not an issue when playing notes but rather in between playing. To mitigate this I use a noise gate (Reaper) but any hardware noise gate or software should do.

One more - even though I'm running this through my mixer I never found mixing dry signal with distortion of any use. Blending the 2 signals is not the same sound-wise as turning down the amount of drive on the distortion box nor desirable imo.
Last edited by Markyboard on Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Voyager: possible to damage ext in, with hot signal?

Postby ummagumma » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:45 pm

great info, thanks!!

I never thought of using the headphone out into FX; you could even chain it into something else, and have a totally separate signal path
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