Voyager - bypassing second filter

Tips and techniques for Minimoog Analog Synthesizers
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motion drive
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Voyager - bypassing second filter

Post by motion drive » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:51 am

Hello everyone

I listend to this: https://soundcloud.com/user-474034779/s ... n-reaction

At around 6:20 he's talking about bypassing the second filter. He's using the Mono Out as a sound source and in the second right output just plugg in a cable without connecting it on the other end. Like that, you get a 1-filter sound on your Mono out. Is that true? He's stating also, that the sound gets punchier and more focused. But isnt it the same as using the Mono out and just put spacing on 0?

Curious to know, if tht really makes a diference in sound. Anyone tried that out?

Acid Mitch
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Re: Voyager - bypassing second filter

Post by Acid Mitch » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:46 am

Yes it’s true. One filter goes to the left output. The other filter goes to the right output.
If you have only the left out connected you hear both filters summed to the left output.
If you connect both outputs you get the filters in stereo.
If you only connect the right output you bypass the filter on the left and only hear one filter.
If you connect the left output and put a dummy jack in the right you bypass the filter on the right and only hear one filter.

It’s pretty easy to test.

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GregAE
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Re: Voyager - bypassing second filter

Post by GregAE » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:28 am

Acid Mitch is quite right on this. In fact, it's one of the fundamental considerations for recreating Minimoog patches on the Voyager. A few years ago I included this as an addendum to the "Vintage, Voyager, or Virtual" article that compared a Minimoog Model D with a Voyager and a Creamware MiniMax.

Here's that addendum:

"Our experience in conducting these tests brought to light some of the basic considerations for recreating Minimoog patches on the Voyager. If you should ever need to do this (such as translating a patch from the Minimoog Patch Book to the Voyager), here are some things to keep in mind if an authentic Minimoog re-creation is the goal:

1. Use a single output taken from the Voyager's RIGHT output only. This output is unaffected by the SPACING control, so that knob setting makes no difference in a patch (helps to keep things simple).

2. Make sure the Voyager's filter is set to Dual Lowpass (LP/LP) mode.

3. Don't include waveform modulation (the Minimoog has no PWM capabilities).

4. To duplicate the Minimoog oscillator waveforms on the Voyager, use these WAVE settings:
Triangle Wave: 000
Tri-Saw Hybrid Wave (aka 'Sharktooth' wave): 025
Sawtooth Wave: 088
Square Wave: 178
Pulse Wave (35%): 220
Narrow Pulse Wave (15%): 250

5. Filter Keyboard Control: The Minimoog's keyboard control switches 1 & 2 provide 1/3 and 2/3 keyboard scaling control of the filter cutoff, respectively. To duplicate this behavior on the Voyager, use these KEYBOARD CONTROL AMOUNT knob values:
Keyboard control 1: 98
Keyboard control 2: 180

6. The Voyager's AMOUNT TO FILTER control is bipolar, but the Minimoog Filter's
AMOUNT OF CONTROL function is positive only. Keep all Voyager AMOUNT TO FILTER adjustments in the positive range.

7. The Minimoog doesn't have a dedicated RELEASE envelope control knob, so set the Voyager's DECAY and RELEASE envelope controls to the same values.

By observing these guidelines, you should be able to achieve a reasonably faithful Minimoog re-creation on the Voyager."
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ummagumma
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Re: Voyager - bypassing second filter

Post by ummagumma » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:26 pm

very interesting stuff, thanks for posting!!

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ummagumma
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Re: Voyager - bypassing second filter

Post by ummagumma » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:49 pm

funny timing, today I was talking to someone about the minimoog's cutoff freq going up to 30 KHz, and the Voyager's only 12 KHz

anyone know why the Voyager topped out at 12K?

I happen to have a Big Briar MF-101 filter, which I assume predates the Voyager (?) and it tops out at 12K as well

Acid Mitch
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Re: Voyager - bypassing second filter

Post by Acid Mitch » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:03 am

ummagumma wrote:
anyone know why the Voyager topped out at 12K?


Either your Voyager was broken or mine didn't get the memo. :lol:
When using the Voyagers Oscillators or noise source it can seem like that but if you put something into the external filter input that has frequencies higher than 12k you will see/hear that they don’t get cut off (unless you lower the cutoff knob) because the filter opens far above that.

I’ve never used the MF 101 so can’t say for sure what’s happening with it but I’d guess that using the envelope follower will push the cutoff beyond 12k.

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ummagumma
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Re: Voyager - bypassing second filter

Post by ummagumma » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:46 pm

ha!

I was just going by what is written on the control panel, on both units ( Voyager and MF 101 )

motion drive
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Re: Voyager - bypassing second filter

Post by motion drive » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:03 pm

Thx for the infos guys. Well, whats your observation...is it really a difference in sound when you use the stereo filter and set spacing to zero compared to one filter with the technique written above? In theory it should sound the same no?

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ummagumma
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Re: Voyager - bypassing second filter

Post by ummagumma » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:41 pm

I just tried, and I couldn't hear any difference. here is a link


https://soundcloud.com/vogon_dreams/l-r ... rs-voyager

for each mono channel, I had a jack plugged in the unused output

Acid Mitch
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Re: Voyager - bypassing second filter

Post by Acid Mitch » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:40 am

You didn’t hear a difference because you had a jack in both outs and spacing at 0.
If you have left out connected and nothing connected to the right out you’ll get phasing and/or volume differences on some sounds because the left and right get summed.
If you connect both outs and set spacing to 0, both outs will sound the same.
If you only want to hear one filter and use the left output, then you need a jack in the right out to stop both being summed.
If you only want to hear one filter and use the right output, it doesn’t matter if you have a jack in the left or not. Using the right out has the advatage that you don't have to think about the spacing parameter.

The reason people say it gets more punchy when only using one filter is because mono signals are naturally more punchy than stereo signals. It’s not because the sound changes, it's because the panning changes.
That and not having both channels summed.

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till
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Re: Voyager - bypassing second filter

Post by till » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:04 pm

Even if SPACING is set to zero, the two filter are not likely to be identically. They might be a little bit different calibrated. And even a bit tiny different cutoff frequency will cause a slightly phase canceling, as filters have a phase shift depending on their cutoff frequency. So what sounds good in stereo is not as direct as one filter reproduced in mono.
keep on turning these Moog knobs

Sequence:
Prodigy * Minimoog (1979) * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog reissues with MUSEs * One

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